h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Not much knowledge then if they're like the ones around here.

As for the Apple stores, it's definitely worth reading up on their mark-up and distribution processes, they've really locked it down in a strange way that seems to work.

There's an app for Amazon I think that allows you to scan in barcodes where you are out and about around town, and it'll add them to your basket. You can then click order and know they'll all get delivered to your house.

Shops need to realise that this *is* going to happen, and they need to deal with it, work with it rather than against. Not sure how, but they're going to have to think about it.

So here's a question then, how do we, the collected minds of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (Earth Edition) think that the High Street can be saved?

We'll ignore the "It can't, it's too late" for the moment, what do we think they should try?

1000 years from now someone like Neil Oliver will be
prodding and poking about digging up old mobile devices
amid the ruins of old rotten Apples and proclaim,
"Here lived the ancient Macs and they did interface
with warriors and maidens by way of much clicking
and skyping to barter their wears for favour. This
road was famed for being the better way to Scotland
and great masses would gather in arenas to sing its
praises over the low road which legend says now lies
below the waters of..."

~jwf~

They need to make the experience attractive. "But how?" you ask.

In short, that's up to them. It will likely involve some upfront costs - provide entertainment, free samples of goods, crèches run by competent and suitable people - but it's throwing a sprat to catch a salmon. It's an investment that will have a return. Imagination is the only limit. (Lots of these costs can be minimised, too, if traders come together and share them).

Here's your brief, traders: make shopping *fun* - an make it fun for those of us who hate it.

I think that's a *very* good point KB, it's not fun is it?

I think we all hate going shopping. So yes, they need to find out why we hate it and solve that. Make it pleasurable, or even just not horrid, to shop there, that'd definitely get more people through the doors.

What would make us buy whilst there though rather than just going to get it online? Manufacturers only supply certain things to the high street, not available online? Wouldn't be good for those that couldn't get to a high street though I suppose.

I like the creche idea.

(And I don't think we *can* ignore "they can't, it's too late", Pastey. In many towns I visit, the shops have already shut for the most part. What do we do in that case? It's an important question.)

The question is really how do we convince each other it is worth paying extra to the high street trader when we can get it cheaper on line.

The answer is we cant, we will always buy the cheapest way. the only answer could a State levy on goods sold in online trading (say 35% VAT). All goods purchased on line should carry taxes to the equivalent of the saving offered by the on line retailer to the customer (they will still be ahead as they will save huge amounts on staff and cost of premises).

The only exception to this could be on line retailers who have a substantial high street presence, who sell on line and on the high street thus supporting the community.

It will cost us all in the long run as the loss of rates to the councils will have to be paid by the householders in the area. And the preservation of the high street as a viable market place.

Sorry KB, I should have clarified that. I don't think that we can ignore the case that the High Street as we know it is in serious decline. It's a sad fact that so many of our national chains have closed up for good. I could rant and rave about this for a long time, I've many theories on what caused it, and those that have the "pleasure" of drinking with me have heard them several times.

I was merely trying to focus this question and discussion towards what we think might be done to help, rather than to open it up for several postings along the lines of "Nothing, it's dead".

I'm not so sure we can't bobstafford, there are things that the high street can offer that online can't, and I personally think that they really should look at these.

The initial things that come to mind is immediate availability. People will pay a little more for having something now, rather than having to wait. Also with the high street there's no delivery charge. They never seem to make mention of that. I've almost been caught out a couple of times about to order something online for a few quid cheaper, and then finding out that postage and packing takes it up to the same price as the shop.

And I think I've been ranting in another thread somewhere about having to then go and collect items from depots in the middle of nowhere.

But if you add in the cost of the carparking, time taken and the lazy nature of the average citizen we who prefer shopping are in a minority

Precisely Bob - the question is how to turn it into something that doesn't appeal only to a minority.

...for instance. I frequently meet people at a particular local market on a Sunday, because it's a good place to meet, eat and drink and they sell interesting things. Now if I were to phone people and say "hey, let's meet in my place on Sunday and look at things on Amazon and play.com", I doubt many people would be interested.

The best way is to level the playing field in some way, has big buisness got its hands on the throat of the gouvernment in some way. Tax is the only way to simply balance things and create extra revenue for whitehall, 2 vat rates have been used before and could easily be brought in an adjusted where required.

Whitehall could feed back some of the money to ease buisness rates on the high street.

Adjusted tax rates could work, definitely a good idea. Although I think first they'd have to get companies to start paying tax they should rather than the tax they can get away with.

What KB just said reminds me a bit of how shopping used to be before the supermarkets came in, in that you were *served* rather than checked out.

Being able to go into a shop and have staff who knew what they were selling, how to serve and make it worthwhile going in would definitely be a start.

They cant mess with vat so easily and that will put thair prices up which is the main thing

Part of the complexity of this issue is that it isn't just a question of where you can buy things cheapest; it's a complete social issue that takes in planning policy, transport, rates/taxes. And also demographics - eg. what works in town A (a little seaside place where people move after retirement) may not work in town B (a buzzing student town where the typical resident is under 30).

The idea is to take the cost advantage from the online trader. By all means they must retain the convenience element.
Online food shopping should remain uneffected as this can now bee seen as a very real social service

Or we can embrace change instead of artificially trying to maintain the status quo. The High Street killed the weekly/monthly market, rise in car ownership killed the travelling shop van, out of town retail centres killed the High Street, video killed the radio star, the internet killed the out of town retail centres.

Maybe High Streets will become places you go for services rather than goods - haircuts, nailbars, eyebrow threaders, tattoo shops, greasy fast food, cheap tat not worth paying delivery charges on.

Let the market decide, in other words.

One thing I can never understand is why High Street shops open at the hours they do.

I guess once upon a time when husbands went out to earn, and wives didn't work but managed the domestic affairs and shopping then opening during office hours during the week might have made sense. Not sure that really follows now seeing as most people both work now.

It basically means a huge proportion of the time shops are open the a massive amount of potential buyers can't use them.

Surely being open a bit later so people could pop in after work to buy stuff would make more sence in 21C Britain?

FB

"so here's a question then, how do we, the collected minds of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (Earth Edition) think that the High Street can be saved?"


I think before this question can be satisfactorily addressed, it is first necessary to find the answer to another question;
Why do we want to save the high street?

Personally, I think there are several reasons as to why we might want to save the highstreet;

. diversity in the market; rather than reducing retail to Amazon, play.com, and a few other big online (or highstreet) retailers, a more open 'market', involving many smaller, medium sized, and yes, larger retailers, is benifical for consumer choice, and competition within the 'market'. Competition isn't always good, of course, and certainly it doesn't always work in very closed 'markets', where effectively prices end up fixed, due to the closeness of prices and also choice then avilible, to the consumer, by the number of retailres; whether it is a very small pool of retailers, or a large one; The former gives rise to E.G., effective price fixing in the energy marekt, where as the latter, gives rise to ever increasing pushes on prices to be as low as possible, which gives us horse meat in burgers.

. Employment. Local employment, making the whole issue effectively a town/city/county issue, or interest, to have a diverse, thrieving town/city center, to provide employment for the local area; if everyone locally is buying from Amazon Et Al, then there's just a few delivery vans, and a few warehouse people somewhere in the country...

.Consumer choice, convenience and err soemthing I can't quite think the word for.... Basically, its handy to be able to pop out and buy a few rashers of bacon, or a computer keyboard, or a set of hifi interconnects, or a reel of thread, there and then, without having to either wait for dilivery, or drive miles out to get it, if, indeed you've got a car...



As to teh how, I think local councils could have a big part to play in it, by how they set rates, rents, etc., in the city and town centers....
In terms of what the shops themselves could do, I think it must come down to both price, and choice... ; The last time I tried to buy razor blades in town center shops, I couldn't.... they either didn't have the brand of blades I wanted (a not at all uncommon brand), or if they did, the price was so* much more expsnive than buying online it would just have been silly (hence why the evil Amazon just dilivered me a box of razor blades again, on my repeat order, today).

Maybe there also needs to be a change in the types of goods sold on teh high street; some consumer electronics and other things are just done better, due to teh prices, on exactly the same item/brand/make/model, online.... so maybe the days of having commet, tandys, dixons, etc., etc., are just really gone for good... I dunno But maybe a high street doing well, from other retailers, taht people would go to, from choice, would provide increased enough footfall, to let some of the other retailers survive in a situation where otherwise they wouldn't... I.E., put more specialist shops on the high street to attract peple in, then they'll pop next door and buy a physical CD or bite to eat hmm... very personally, they might want to sell clothes I might want to buy; I'll pay more for them on the high street, because I do rather like being able to feel and see what I@m buying, clothes wise, rather than saving a bit* buying it online, and potentially getting somethign I don't want... (E.\G., I've never seen a leather jacekt advertised online with sufficient inforamiton; E.\g., thickness of the leather, weight of the leather PSI etc...) simularly I'd happily spend 50% more for my shoes, than I do getting htem online, if I could buy them in a physical shop hwere I can try them on first; last pair of boots I had to buy online after exausting all teh shoe shops in two citys and one town, seriously.... the closest thing to what I wanted was* a boot, was made of terrible looking leather, and they were charging nearly £150 in the shops that I found, the boots I bought online were twenty quid, thicker and better quality leather, and not horrible... I'd have picked those boots up, and bought them, in the first shop on the high street I went into, even if they were four times more expensive than the twenty quid I paid online, as they were what I wanted* to buy... hmmm...

I must admit I'm a big fan of JLP click & collect - buy one day, collect the next. Partly because the depot is convenient for me, but also free returns. That's one drawback of some online stores - I reckon p&p equals my time & transport costs but the cost of returning unwanted goods can be a bit steep.

There are a number of items that I really want to see & compare before selecting. I'm prepared to pay more in store if it's not huge difference.