h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Is conscience a nature/nurture argument? Is it restricted to humans? Are conscience and morality the same things?

Is morality/conscience a necessary survival trait for social animals? If so, is religion merely a codification of something inherent in all of us?

I would say it was something genetically programmed for the vast majority of us to develop through social interaction with carers and others. I would say it was necessary for our ability to be social animals, like any other creature that is essentially social in behaviour,

It seems like some people don't develop a conscience, what we might call sociopaths/psychopaths. Ideally these people should removed from the rest of society because of the havoc such people may wreak on others by masquerading as if they were social. Without the development of a sense of conscience however that comes about, such people may do all kinds of damage to their heart's content without a second thought.

I imagine there are quit a few such people online as its probably much easier to get away with the calculating masquerade online.

>>Ideally these people should removed from the rest of society..<<

What's so bloody funny Taleisin?

I'm not bloody laughing.

Please don't beat about the bush like a nice polite Canadian please. Upfront and Aussie is how I want it.

Don't mind me. It's my sense of irony
kicking in...



I just visualized groups of sociopaths and psychopaths being lined up in front of firing squads

For some reason it made me laugh

Okay. It's just that I'm suddenly feeling genuinely freaked by such a thing at present.

And it feels horrific.

And I'd be first in line to shoot a socio/psychpath, actually.

You're being freaked by a sociopath or a psychopath is completely understandable. I have been so freaked on many occasions.

Being freaked by irony, however, is a bit.... odd

Do you need any ammo?

Oh goodness no, irony never freaks me out; that's pure sanity.

I can't explain. It's just too horrible. I'll tell you more when I can.

ok

In reply to SWL's original question:

Who can say if it's nature or nurture but it certainly exists. There are theoretical reasons to suggest it might be an evolutionary advantage (i.e. that a high proportion of cooperators might be an evolutionary stable strategy), but that doesn't mean it had to have happened that way.

At the risk of starting another religion thread - who said religion had anything to do with morality or conscience? Seems to me most religions tell you to do some things that are good and some that are bad.

I've often wondered about this and figured outside of inherited maternal or familial instincts, conscience must be nurture because in utero there is no distinction between self and universe, thus no means to determine what to have a conscience about...?

Mostly because I don't want to believe people are "born bad", and it would invite eugenics principles.

But if it were proved that some were born bad, which might be possible. What then should we do with these sociopaths bent on misery and destruction for their fellows?

I know what I'd do.

strangulation at birth, slowly and horribly

Don't mind If I sit and do you ? looks very interesting ,

No mind you keep well out the way, whilst the killing happens though.

I've never seen any evidence which satisfactorily demonstrates a non-evolutionary origin for morality.

I'd say the capacity for moral behaviour is innate to some degree in human beings; that the capacity varies among individuals, and may even be impaired in some, or wholly absent from others due to trauma, genetic disorder, or other pathology.

There is substantial evidence of moral behaviour in non-human species, occasionally even cross-species acts which could be interpreted as moral, or at least empathic behaviour.

Depending on how one wishes to define the words, 'conscience' could refer to the innate capacity, similar to empathy, whereas 'morality' may be the expression of it, specifically with regard to deliberate, organized and learned behaviours.
No matter how they are defined, I think the two are near cognates, that is, having closely related meaning.

Those aspects of religion which make exclusive claim to morality certainly appear to be attempts to codify moral behaviour, but I think morality truly is more often a convenient accessory to religion, not the basis for it.

I've well given up on moral behaviour, that's for suckers, who are scared of prison.

Seriously you have to believe those around you have a conscience to want to treat them appropriately. If you surmise they don't, logically best thing is to cut their throats immediately.

Why deprive the lions?