h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

There has been a report out to say that they would like to make the hard shoulder - yes that piece of the motorway that you go onto if you break dow - as an extra lane during peak hours to cut conjestion. The M42 already has this in play.

I am wondering what you think about this? Is it a good idea or will it cause problems especially problems if you were to experience problems with your car and had nowhere to pull over.

I think part of the idea is that if you did pull over, the monitoring systems on the road would close that lane to allow emergency services etc. to get to you.

Relying on the monitoring systems is all very well but there needs to be some way of ensuring safety if they break down (which they will)... maybe a layby every 500yds or so.

So what if there's an accident in peak time & emergency services need to get through?

I think much of the congestion is caused by poor driving - lorries overtaking, slow vehicles in outer lanes and so on. This is probably more difficult to address, but I don't see use of the hard shoulder as the best answer.

Absolutely should not be allowed. The hard shoulder is the only place one can ride a bike with only a moderate risk of being run over.

The comments about emergency services are true, too.

how is it working out on the M42?

Ummm.. Pollyona, you *do* know that you're not supposed to cycle on the motorway, don't you?

As a former Road Patrol for a well known motoring organisation, {not yellow vans}, for 18 years covering the motorway network around Birmingham let me say without any hesitation or doubt, using the hard shoulder as an extra lane is the height of lunacy. I was hit 5 times in 18 years service while attending breakdowns on the hard shoulder. On the day I left that job my shift colleague was killed on the M6 just down from our main office, he was hit by a lorry. It's an ill thought out, dangerous hair brained scheme that will result in death and mayhem. Need an extra lane? Build one!! Leave the hard shoulder well alone for emergency use only.

well that does seem to sum it up

blimey!
when they talked about it on the Today show the other day, the guy who was organising it (Highways Agency? was saying that it worked well, only at peak times, and that the hard shoulders are so rarely used at those times it made nearly no difference)

he also said that there were escape-lay-bys every 500 yards (I think) so that breakdowns could go in there.

There are lots of good reasons for not using the hard shoulder, but once you side with the view that its more important to use the hard shoulder at peak times then doesnt it follow that it is useable at other times for traffic to drive on?

I live up the road from the M42 (spooky) and it hasnt caused any major problems this using f the hrad shoulder and yes it does ease congestion. Just like the initial opening of the motorway did, but that's the thing having a whole extra motorway did ease congestion and now at peak times it is itself congested. More roads arent the answer any more than more lanes are the answer to traffic congestion it is traffic control that's the answer.

If more people were ill with lung cancer and need hospital beds would we consider using more beds or encouraging people to smoke less and not get cancer in the first place.

If the streest were clogged with litter woudl it be better to employ more street cleaners or to cut littering?

one love

Again, I think they have built in some.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7060423.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5302122.stm

Sorry, late post.

The smoking analogy doesn't work.

All those people stuck in traffic aren't there for fun. People don't drive miles into work for the sheer joy of it. They're there because there is no alternative. Public transport, in general, sucks.

They had the big idea of getting everyone to travel on trains, except when the peak times got busy the fares escalated.

Traffic will continue to grow despite every effort made to harass and tax drivers off the road. In case no one's noticed, the govt is cramming millions more immigrants into a transport network that just can't cope. A nationwide effective public transport system would cost hundreds of billions, which no government is going to spend.

They won't even spend what is necessary on roads.

This is a cutprice measure and, as has been pointed out, people are going to die as a direct result.

"All those people stuck in traffic aren't there for fun."

Yes they are.

As you have pointed out there is an alternative but people prefer crawling along in their personal shiny metal box on wheeels as opposed to the unreliable cramped and smelly shared transport system. "You pays yer money you takes yer choice"

I agree that this is a cut price and dangerous alternative, but are drivers saying they dont want it? No they actually do want it. OK they dont want it as musch as they want more and bigger highways. Yet they use it all the same.

"They won't even spend what is necessary on roads.

"Necessary" for what?

Ive never had a point in my life where I thought, hey I wish there was a motorway that went from here to there or an extra lane so the motorway Im on would get me there faster.

Obviously some people *want* more roads but for certain aspects of quality of life to imporve you *need* less roads than some people tell you are "necessary".

What we realy need to do is use what we have effectively and plan housing, industrial, leisure and commercial developments around our existing transport infrastructure.

one love

No, they're not there for fun.

When travelling by public transport becomes so expensive that it takes up a significant proportion of your wages, it's uneconomic.

When it takes longer, it adds to your working day and means less time with family, friends etc.

When timetables don't match a shift pattern, it can mean arriving hours early or hanging around for hours after work. Sometimes both.

When property prices and rents in cities drive people further and further away from population centres, public transport becomes increasingly erratic and expensive.

When the public transport doesn't even exist, there is no choice.

"Cars are for fun"

I can't drive. I live 4 miles from my office and I'm not riding a bike to work. Costs me about £120 per month for buses and trams. That's over 10% of my wage.

Girl at the desk opposite me lives 5 miles away. She can drive. Costs her around £60 per month to drive in every day.

Of course she's using the roads for fun.

"All those people stuck in traffic aren't there for fun"


I don't know what planet this character is from but frankly his/her arguments don't hold water full stop. I'm unsubbing from this,I don't mind having a decent debate on a subject but not when someone can't see the wood for the tree's. I've still got the pictures of my mangled recovery vehicle as well as the one of my colleague being killed. Call me stubborn, pig headed, whatever you like, you'll never convince me that using the hard shoulder is safe, even for emergency use they're dangerous places. Laybys aren't the answer.You get hit at 50mph you're maimed for life or dead, end of story. At 70mph you're dead!! The only reason I'm not is my vehicle was parked at at safe distance behind the broken down vehicle and I was only in the van on 2 out of the 5 incidents. After the National Express coach decided to take the space my van was in that was the worst incident, it took emergency services 45 minutes to cut me out the van. Bear in mind our vans are highly visible, with beacons, hazard lights yet on 3 out of the 5 incidents the offending driver told police they didn't realise the van was stationary.

Perhaps he/she should go breakdown on the hard shoulder and get hit by a lorry or coach then come back and tell me it's a good idea.




ST.

Don't get me wrong I am learning to drive but when I pass my test I still won't be driving to work - I live 10 miles away across a city, it takes me an hour to get there and £28 a month, it would cost me so much more and take more time to try and get here during rush hour.

sorry that made no sense - it costs me £28 a month on public transport!
won't be travelling in a car during rush hour even when i pass

Apologies for how garbled this is!!