h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Peace?

Approximately 10,000 civilians killed in Kosovo.
Approximately 8,000 Bosnians massacred at Srebenica whilst Dutch peacekeepers watched.

Yes, we know all about European attitudes to "no more war".

"Don't forget, that Europe has never known peace as long as this time after 1945."

Time between your first example (Napoleonic Wars) and second example (WW1) = 99 years (1815-1914)

Time between 1945 and 2007 = 62 years

When you make sweeping statements Alfredo, don't put evidence to the contrary in the same post.

(Oh, and let's not forget that the Crimean war took place between your First and Second examples, and the wars in the Balkans took place between your 1945 cut-off and now. Or do wars not taking place in Western Europe not count?)

Well, if we are counting peoples and years it may be a bit different as I described.

In my view Europe is rather addicted to wars, colonizing (what we still do in Africa and Asia), civil wars and even genocide.

But, as cynical as I am/has been/will remain/ it's a miracle that the war at the Balkans happened so many years after 1945.

Europe is one of the most dangerous places in/for the world, looking at history; indide as outside.

But creating no wars, or less, is not only the result of creating some kind of European union.

I must say, although peoples like Bush would not be my friends,that immediately after world war one The USA pressed the European countries that were involved in the war ,to do without Royal kingdoms, because these were very unstable factors.

And yes, they did not press England to do the same. That's life.

Hitler shows the potential we all have inside us. It confronts us with ourselves and our deepest potential drives. We had and have to create a kind of union.
I don't like the concept of "union". That's not necessary. I would choose for federation.

And as I said; countries that want to become a member have to change their laws before becoming one and that means a lot of change for the better, but it will never be on the front page of our news papers.

Europe is rotten to the core and that makes a federation necessary and economically it would be rather stupid not to strive for some kind of collective laws and rules.


I compare it all with the United Nations.
For and to me it really is a miracle the U.N. even exists today and it even needs the support from cynics like Alfredo, cause this world can't harm itself less, without unions between states.

Let's try to prevent it all becomes worse.





What efforts ne

One of the main reasons I join the H2G2, is the fact that it's related to the BBC.
Their role in Great Britain, Europe and the globe is very important, in my point of view.

I almost always look at the news at BBC-World and not the fuss of in our little Holland.

A program like The Doha Debates (initiative Qatar) is very important and I believe it has some influence for the better, because it makes world politics a bit more transparent. The world as a small village, where it's not that easy to hide any longer

http://www.bbcworld.com/Pages/Programme.aspx?id=48


Quote BBC World

"Prominent speakers have included: President Bill Clinton; Shimon Peres; Archbishop Desmond Tutu; Sheikh Hamza Yusef, leading Islamic cleric; Dr Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the UN’s nuclear watchdog; Ahmed Maher, former Egyptian Foreign Minister and David Frum, former speech writer for President Bush".


"The Doha Debates are chaired by the internationally renowned broadcaster Tim Sebastian, formerly of BBC World’s HARD talk programme".

The program is put on TV by BBC World.


And what "Srebrenica" and the "Dutch" is concerned.
Well, the only defensive things I could say is, that the world community as a whole believed in those days, that the presence alone of U.N. soldiers would have such an impact on the ground, that further hostilities would not occur.
That appeared not to be true.

The other thing is that the Dutch did not kill the Muslim population, but the Serves.

For the rest; it's extremely shameful.
Yes, I know "When the war is over, the Dutch come in" and drinking vodka with the Serbian commander will be an unforgettable shame.

Even our social-democratic prime minister (until 2004) refused to be at least present at the annual memorial.
Belgian has had a very inspiring prime minister with the former "Verhofstad", who publicly talked about the shame of slavery and colonization and visited the countries it had been exploited.

I don't think there's any morally ingredient in 'modern man", that was not present in the Middle Ages or 2 thousand years before christ.
Of course; political life has changed. Democracy appeared to be a real success. In the middle ages it was generally accepted to start a war if one did disagree.
Were they more violent than "modern man"?
At the outside it may seem to be so, by the strategy of our "embedded journalists" who join the armies, but no, there is no difference.

People were surprised, when the Russians put their flag at the bottom of the Arctic sea, as a symbol of their claim to that part of the sea and bottom.
Well, why was the first thing man did on the moon, putting an American flag at the moon?

Is that wrong.
No.
But it shows there is no such thing as moral evolution. There is evolution in intelligence and knowledge and skills, but would our moral attitude really differ from the people in the year three thousand.

Feminism has been a great change for the better, but our whole sex business tells another story.

I am going out for a walk.

The sky might calm me down.

Greetings from Amsterdam

I'm sorry, what is the EU doing with the PKK members residing within its borders?

I don't know from whom you expect an answer, but in The Netherlands the parliament of the PKK is allowed to create meetings and I think that's a good thing that in one country in Europe they are "visible".

Besides; meetings of the PKK in The Netherlands cannot be forbidden by law, as long it's political and not military.


Somewhere there's a contradiction in my defending the European Union as a pragmatic economic organization by which also war is not so easy as in the past and my "believe', that morally, there's no belief in me that there will be any evolution in attitude within mankind.

The so called “smart weapons” do far more harm than any weapons ever before, except the atomic bombes before. It’s only more hidden, more sophisticated, almost “sexy”, as one would like to believe by programs at Discovery Channel.

So, in my opinion it makes Europe a bit saver and I do understand that that does not feel very exciting.
When the police of London prevent a terrorist attack it’s far less impressive, compared to an explosion with 20 peoples killed.

I should not “defend” anything.
“Sharing” makes much more sense.


Greetings from rainy Amsterdam Alfredo.

THat's interesting, I'm extremely surprised by that. The Netherlands is part of the EU, which states that the PKK is a terrorist group. I assume terrorist group must have some military conotation - and yet they are allowed to openly meet and operate.

I'm surprised there aren't more terrorist groups taking advantage of this asylum.

What was the status of the IRA in the US? Were they recognised as a terrorist organisation?

I have no idea if the IRA was ever recognized as a terrorist group in the US, but that's the exact same case/point. Let's see what wikipedia has to say...

The Continuity IRA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_Irish_Republican_Army) is #10 on the US Dept. of State's list of terrorist organizations:
http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/fs/37191.htm

So I guess we're all agreed that the Netherlands are harboring the PKK, a groupd which the EU has designated as terrorists. Is this causing any strain between the EU and the Netherlands?