h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I was reading The Sun yesterday (I'm sorry, the only person in my flat with enough money to buy papers is my PE student flatmate who's scared of real newspapers) and apparently 51% of Scots and 48% of English people are in favour of disbanding the United Kingdom and reverting to an independent England and independent Scotland.

I was wondering what people thought of breaking apart a 300 year institution which allowed a relatively small island to become a global superpower. As a student I'm not happy that Scottish MPs could vote to bring in top up fees for English and Welsh students whilst Scottish students get a free university education, but that aside I'm not in favour of destroying an arrangement that has worked for three centuries.

Any thoughts?

I guess a huge amount depends on how a question is asked, and whether it's viewed as a 'wouldn't it be nice...' situation, or one whether numerous practicalities are gone into and understood.

I would be interested in whether it was an English edition of the Sun or a Scottish one. The figures I've heard were 52% & 59% respectively. The reason I ask is I've seen different versions of a story being given an anti-English spin in Scotland and an anti-Scots one in England. Which makes me wonder if there's a bit of manipulation going on.

It was an English version, and it had the Scots as the instigators. Then it had a bit of "It'd be great because they steal all our taxes".

Incidentally, I don't think Scottish Students get a free education at all. They pay afterwards, not upfront. Also, don't Scots Degrees tend to take 4 years as opposed to the average 3 year English one? So Scots end up paying more.

(Not really sure of my ground here, so if any Scots Student would care to set me right...?)

I just wonder why. What good would it do? I can see an awful lot of problems and not many good points. In fact, the only good point I can see it that those Scots who hate the English can pretend that their xenophobia is justified.

Oh, I think the xenophobia is definately a two-way street.
Although I get pretty p!ssed at fellow Scots who seem to equate being Scottish as not being English.

Scotland would do well outside the Union, to suggest otherwise is patronising and indicative of the very attitude that has led directly to Nationalism. Scotland is a net contributor to the Union: (look up William Waldegrave's Parliamentary answer in 1996. Asked to allocate taxes raised by Scottish oil to Scotland (not that unreasonable) Waldegrave admitted that between 1979 and 1995 the net fiscal flow from Scotland to England was £72 billion.)

It is extremely unlikely that Scotland would spend money on a nuclear deterrent, nor would we become embroiled in expensive foreign adventures. With PR, there is arguably a better chance of democracy working due to the smaller population base. 200,000 people upset about something in a population of 60 million is not enough to effect change. 200,000 in a population of 5 million is.

"Oh, I think the xenophobia is definately a two-way street."
-I always got the feeling that those Scots who are xenophobic hated the English specifically, rather than the English xenophobes who tend to hate anyone who's not English. Not that I mentioned the English in my post- my fault there.

But that's way off on a side track. Sorry.

Scottish students don't pay fees (at the moment). I dunno about English students in Scotland though.

For my own part, I'm not really in favour of independence, although that does depend on a number of factors. But imagine for a second what would happen. We'd both be EU states, so my right to travel to England would remain the same, my right to work there would be the same, and it's unlikely *that* much would change. It would be illegal to discriminate against Scots down south, etc etc. And vice versa, obviously.

I think that it's much more of a non-question than before, simply because of the EU. Of course, there would be a whole host of symbolic questions, but practically, less would change than ever before. I think this partly explains a lot of why more people favour independence (if they in fact do).

"Scottish students don't pay fees (at the moment). I dunno about English students in Scotland though."

My friend, from a council estate in Salford is up to her ears in loan debt to go to Edinburgh University. Her housmate from a much better financial background (her parents own a racehorse!!) gets free education. Regardless of the national situation that's unfair.

As an aside, Id be interested in an answer but Im not going to lose sleep over it, but as there is no difference when an Englishman is tried under Scottish law and vice versa, right? Well how long would Jemima Bull have to live in Scotland to (possibly) benefit from the Scottish provisons for students as a oppsed to the ones she would get in England? Would Jock McKilt still be able to aplly or the same help hed get in Scotland if the day before sarting unversity he and his Family moved from Gretna Green to Carlisle?




As for Scottish Oil I think we the English should pay back every penny to them. Afterall there were no English, Welsh or Ulster born people involved in the exploration physically or finanacially. As the Scottish discovered and developed those oil fields all by themselves they shoud be the ones to exclusively benefit from them.

Jock McKilt? Dude, wtf? If you're going to use comedy Scottish names, it's Hamish McSporran, ok?

I think the studenty thing applies to English residents coming to Scotland, but I'm not sure. Whatever technicalities apply I don't have a clue.

English students have to pay to study in Scotland, Scots don't, however EVERYONE has to pay to study in England. Don't know if that helps...

So as long as I was going to study in Scotland if I moved to a flat in Glasgow the next or even same day I could expect the same financial deal for my future studying as Huechter McTuechter life long resident and third generation Ionian?

Or am I missing something?

I think there would be some kinda residency time limit, but...

I don't know

I think you have to apply to a Scottish LEA, which means you'd have to have been to a Scottish school.

Instead of all the petted lips at Scots "advantages", why don't the English insist upon the same benefits in England? Scotland gets allocated no more resources than any other area, so get on to your MPs and say "Oi, we want that!".

Dont get me wrong Im not envious or angry with the Scots that they have a better notion about supporting people in higher education. If Im angry with anyone about it Im angry with the people in Westminster who let it go through and the tightwads who thought it up.

IM just curious as to how it wuld work. The LEA thing makes sense but at pre16 you'd become elligble for a place in a Scottish school the day you moved to Scotland. Im just curious as to how not being Scottish or English but British people might just be able to move a few miles to the North and get financial help the couldnt just over the border. I was wondering if it was the same as treatment funding between different area health authorities ala the post code lotteries.

I think the analogy between Local Authorities and Postcode Lotteries is a good one.

"Scotland is a net contributor to the Union"

As is England. My impression has always been that it's Wales and (in particular) Northern Ireland that are net beneficiaries.