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Chronotis Started conversation Jun 3, 1999
Having just read some of the TEA forum I am mulling over the fact that some English types think we Scots (or maybe Scottish or even at a pinch Scotch) are called Scotts. It makes us sound as though we're all related (if we are, a lot of us don't like our cousins). "Hallo, Mr Scott, this is Mr Scott..." ad infinitum et ad nauseam. The strange and frankly erroneous descriptions of peculiar Scottish habits regarding tea and vinegar got me thinking about other culinary differences between our two countries, specifically concerning Scotland's national dish.
I am, of course, referring to CURRY. No other food comes close to the popularity of this infinitely sustaining and pleasantly searing repast. Not even the mythical deep-fried Mars bar or the "special" fish supper. Had a couple of pints of heavy and feel a bit peckish? Have a curry! Has Scotland just beaten England senseless at football/rugby/table-tennis/tiddleywinks? Have a few pints and a celebratory curry. Has England just shamefully stolen victory from the more deserving side? Have a few pints and a commiseratory curry.
But when we venture south of the border, down Watford way, we find it difficult to have a satisfying shot of turmeric-hued food. There are restaurants serving food called curry, it is true, but apart from small pockets of excellence (the Stoney Lane area of Birmingham, for example), the food always leaves something to be desired.
This is even true when the restaurant bears the flock wallpaper so sadly disappearing from the Scottish Indian restaurant scene. (It is all white walls and modern art now, although fortunately the food remains substantial and satisfying.)
Deficiency 1: Pakora. Delightful parcels of vegetables in a gram flour batter, an exquisite start to any Scottish Indian meal - indeed they are almost a meal in themselves. A nice segue into the next point:
Deficiency 2: Size. A Scottish curry: a mound of pakora (see above) which the wise will share with a friend; a large portion of rice and a large portion of curry; and Nan bread the size of two big plates. The voraciously hungry may add one side dish. If they think they can share it with their friend/partner. An English curry: two onion bhajis; a cupful of rice with a small portion of rice; Nan Bread the size of a wide saucer at best. To get a sustaining meal, which means one that will keep you free from hunger until the next curry, you have to have at least one and probably two side dishes. Which are smaller than the puny "main" course. Even without them, the meal already costs more than the immobility-inducing Scottish meal.
But there is a wonderful plus to this difference between two countries which are immediate neighbours. There is nothing so amusing as watching an English visitor ordering: "Oh, what's that pakora, I'll try that for starters and then, yes, I'll have the rogan josh and boiled rice, with a nan bread and on the side I'll have bombay potatoes and raita and mattar paneer -- no, it's all right waiter, I've had this before."
And then the food comes, and as he reaches the end of his pakora, the visitor suddenly realises that he's going to be able to eat hardly any of the the rest of it...
A childish amusement, but fun all the same.
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Lark Posted Jun 7, 1999
I must read the TEA forum, personally I thought all Scotts drank whisky, without ice. There are some very good curry houses in England if you know where to look, but a good tip is find a Sikh friend who enjoys cooking. You will have the meal you only dreamed about. On the other hand, if you want the worst - try American currys! Talk about difficult to find a good curry house, and you only find one in a blue moon. On the other hand, there are lots of Thai restaurants.....
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Chronotis Posted Jun 13, 1999
Yep, I know what you mean about American curries, or indeed anything American which is supposed to be spicy. Odd when you consider the reputation they have for chilli -- but then, a lot of Texans don't really see themselves as American.
And not just Sikh friends, Muslims too cook superb curries at home which would put to shame most restaurants.
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Lark Posted Jun 14, 1999
Most of the Muslim meals I have had have been from Arab countries, (my parents currently live in Saudi Arabia, and I spent a lot of my life there) rather than Indian, but I am willing to concede your point. My grandmother is Indian, and her meals are wonderful, but the best meal I have had, was cooked by a Sikh friend.
You are right about spicy foods in America, the only foods I have found that are at all hot are some stuffed Jalapenos, if you go to a real Mexican restaurant. I have really had to tone down my recipes when I cook for friends.
I read the forum about tea in the end. I am a tea drinker myself (though I also like single malts, having some Scottish blood in me, but then who hasn't?) but I couldn't get excited enough about it to put in a message. My great grandfather, (one of the Scottish ones) owned tea plantations in the Nilgree Hills, so try Nilgree tea sometime - it is sold in some places!
What part of Scotland do you hail from? I have been to Falkirk in Stirling, and visited Wallacestone, Blackness (which is truly lovely) and also been to Glasgow and Edinburgh. I hope to go again soon. Last time I went up to Elgin, and made a fool of myself. I had just been learning Scottish lowland dancing with some friends, and when we went into a bar, there were some musicians playing. I have read lots of literature about celidhs (if that is how you spell it) and the atmosphere seemed jovial, so in no time, I had the pub swinging. I think I danced with everybody there. It wasn't until we left that one of the locals called me over and said "You're English aren't you? I can tell, this is the first time anyone has danced in this pub." Crestfallen, I asked about the musicians, and was told they played there every evening -nobody usually paid any attention to them! They asked me back again the next night though, so it can't have been that bad. However, my friend and I have decided that next time we willl appear like the other stereotyped Scotsman, the "dour Scotsman", knock back our whisky, and definitely not draw attention to ourselves.
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Chronotis Posted Jun 19, 1999
Yes, there's a huge difference between middle-eastern cooking and the Indian subcontinent. I have been lucky enough to have some Sikh, Hindu and Muslim friends over the years, and those from the India/Pakistan/Bangladesh part of the world all have been adept at producing superb food. Interesting variations in style between different parts of the subcontinent, but all delicious. I remember one guy I knew slightly, I think he was from Pakistan, standing in a kitchen with a jar of Patak's lime & chilli pickle, shovelling by the spoonful into his mouth. Whenever I hear someone who knows nothing about Indian food say, "Oh, well, you know Indians don't really eat very spicy food..." I remember that and grin quietly to myself.
Nice to hear of someone else whose food is fiery. I tend not to tone it down. If I cook a curry, I cook a couple of dishes, one of which can strip wallpaper, the other(s) are for the wimps
Nilgree tea, eh? Don't know that one. I like tea myself but tend to drink more coffee - tea is good in the afternoon, but it is easier to get a good cup of coffee now (how things have changed in the past decade!) than a good cup of tea. I live in the Glasgow area, and the city is full of superb coffee shops. Some of them also do good tea, but it isn't always immediately obvious which. (A thought has just come into my head: why is it that all - or at least 98% of them - Indian restaurants, and it doesn't matter how good a restaurant we're talking about, serve the most revolting coffee possible?)
Sounds like you had a good time with your impromptu ceilidh (<- the correct spelling, not really intuitive to an anglophone, is it?) and I expect the locals had a whale of a time. Perhaps they still talk about it now... Dancing is pretty uncommon in Scottish pubs. Ceilidhs are very popular, though, and it is generally fairly easy to find one. But what sort -- there are two distinct approaches to Scottish country dancing. One is along the lines of your approach: music, jovial atmosphere, fancy a dance, etc. The other is to really know all the steps to all the dances and perform them with military precision. Fun doesn't really come into it. I have always preferred the fun approach. Perhaps you should check out the Riverside Club the next time you're in Glasgow. I can't remember what time it opens, I think it's about 8pm, but it is very much first come, first served. The place fills up rapidly, the dancing is wild (I have once seen a head-on collision which would have been worse but for the copious use of muscle relaxants by all involved).
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Lark Posted Aug 14, 1999
Sorry for the long silence, I found out I was expanding, and was put on bedrest, and have only just been allowed up to use the computer. However, all is well now, and proceeding according to plan (well, not that a pregnancy can be planned to order, but it does follow general rules).
I eat Patak's extra hot lime pickle straight out of the bottle too - love it, and it isn't too hot really! You do pay for it the next day though!
Do you have any good curry recipes yourself? I generally make vegetarian ones, and I am looking for a good recipe for Dahl. I had some cooked once that was so good. One of my friends here, who is so Scottish you wouldn't know he was born in America and lived here all his life, wants me to make him a haggis curry (my husband says he will definitely be out that evening). Have you ever tried that? I have never turned down a challenge, but it sounds pretty disgusting to me.
Tip - Never have coffee in an Indian restaurant. Stick with beer! Or get drunk before you drink the coffee, that works too.
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Chronotis Posted Aug 29, 1999
Congratulations on your expansion!
Sorry for my long silence, too. One way and another, I have been having quite a hectic time. Only one reason was an excursion to Cornwall to "see" the eclipse. Actually, it was a pretty fantastic experience despite the cloud, wind and rain, and I must scribble something about it...
The only thing I have ever found which eases the next-day effects of curry/lime pickle/anything really spicy is yoghourt - quite a lot of it.
I make veggie curries too - see below. (I live in Glasgow again now, and we are very fortunate in having a superb veggie Indian restaurant where, for less than £20, they will bring you dish after dish of marvellous food. (The cost I quote takes drink into account, BTW.)
Haggis curry sounds like a hideous amalgamation of two otherwise decent dishes, although I went veggie several years ago (at the time primarily for health reasons) so now I stick to veggie haggis. (I always enjoyed food, but I enjoy it a lot more now - I was surprised to find that the meat had been to some extent masking the flavour of the vegetables.)
I tend not to use recipes as such, but my basic approach is: use vegetable ghee for the oil; use spices, never curry powder (OK, that's obvious); fry the spices before adding anything else (apart from onions if you are using them).
This is good: fry onions in ghee, then when they are clear quickly fry turmeric, cumin, coriander, chopped chillies and garlic. Add chick peas, either from a tin (& drained & rinsed) or pre-soaked, chopped mushrooms and cashew nuts. Stir a little then add coconut milk. You may have to add more liquid. Simmer for at least an hour, and it is best if it sits overnight (true of most curries and chilli).
Serve with a little yoghourt on top along with, perhaps, chopped almonds, and you have a delicious cashew nut and chick pea korma, which does not have to be mild since you control the chillie input.
Or: fry (a little) turmeric, chopped chillies, garlic, coriander, cumin, cardamom, pinch of cinnamon & cayenne in ghee, then add chopped tomatoes (skinned if you want, but I don't mind the skins). (Tinned tomatoes are OK, but if I'm using these I tend to add them after the vegetables because of the amount of liquid in the tinned variety.) Follow this up with the vegetables of your choice - but for best results include okra at least. Again, you may need to add some more liquid. Cook for at least an hour - well, see above. About fifteen minutes before serving, add a sizeable amount of good mango chutney and serve with raita (chopped onions or cucumber in yoghourt with a little cayenne & cinnamon sprinkled on top - you probably know that, but transliteration is so variable across the country that I thought I'd simply make it clear what I was talking about). This is a good patia-style dish. (I'm taking rice and breads for granted.)
Dhal: Turmeric, coriander, cumin, cardamom, chillies to taste, fried along with garlic and onions chopped coarsely or finely as you prefer. Add the pulse of your choice (prepared as appropriate), then add liquid, plus, perhaps, a little yoghourt towards the end of cooking. This is dead simple and very pleasant.
You are SO right about Indian restaurant coffee. I don't think it is coffee at all, but some molten plastic substitute ...
Any interesting food cravings yet?
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Lark Posted Sep 6, 1999
Thanks for the recipes, I tried the Dhal one already, and it was good (I used lentils). It was good to finally make one that I thought was reasonable. My Dhal usually turns out very watery.
I have to be very careful with vegetarian dishes, as my husband tends to think he is being poisoned if he has vegetables without meat! (Americans are strange that way, I once prepared a lunch with breads, pickles and different cheeses, with tomatoes, spring onions, and lettuce, and my husband's family couldn't believe there wasn't any luncheon meat. They thought it was really quaint and English.) So far the only curry that I have made without meat here is potato curry, which I love, but it tastes different every time as I never measure my spices! The only thing I never have done yet is use the whole cardamom pod, I generally separate the seeds out, use them for the curry, and put the pods in the rice to flavour that. ( I put cardamom in a lot of stuff, as I really like it). I have found a little Indian shop here that sells spices in bulk, as well as selling gulab jarmans, jellabis and barfi, which is made on the premises, so is very good.
I heard about the eclipse, but only from people in the midlands - apparently it was 95% dark there, and so not as exciting as a full eclipse. It is amazing to think that a hundred miles or so can make so large a difference. I know the traffic must have been horrendous though, that even came through on the news here.
Yes, I have had some weird cravings, the worst being chilli sauce (they do a chilli sauce at work that is red chillis in an oil base) on frozen vanilla yoghourt, which I ate for lunch for days, to the disgust of many people. You are right....yoghourt does indeed quell the aftermath of eating chilli sauce.... Other cravings have been for tomatoes, limes, lussi and potatoes. On the other hand, I can't face eating chicken any more.
My husband just popped his head in at the door to confirm that we are expecting guests for dinner next week, and I had promised curry. They are vegetarians, except for eating haggis once a year at the Scottish Games here, as his family originated from Scotland, so I guess that we will be trying your other recipes! I will let you know how it went. Meanwhile I am directing my sister's attention to this page, as her husband, who is Jim Lynn (you will recognise his name from this site most likely) is a curry freak. They are recognised in every curry house round Hemel Hempstead as regulars.
Are you good at all types of cooking, or just curry? You talk like an expert on how to make your dishes, so I am guessing they are very good!
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Lark Posted Sep 7, 1999
I just visited your user page.....wow, what a lot of forums about curry/curry accompaniments!
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