A Conversation for The h2g2 Doctor Who Group
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Moffatt clichés
Bagpuss Started conversation Jun 1, 2008
Many people seem to be saying that Steven Moffatt is such a brilliant and original writer, and I somewhat agree, but just for the sheer devilry of it I thought I'd point out that he revisits his own themes quite a bit (SPOILERS only for what's been on telly so far).
Childhood Fears:
Empty Child - kid lost his mummy
Girl in the Fireplace - monsters under the bed
Blink - It's behind you (ie as long as you watch the statues you're safe)
Silence in the library - the dark
Wibbly wobbly timey wimey:
EC - Cpt Jack knows where the bomb will land
GitF & Blink - easy
SitL - River Song & the early message
Also note Curse of Fatal Death, Time Crash and the short story Continuity Errors from Decalog 3.
Old school:
EC - okay it's set in the past, but I think the gas masks still count
GitF - Clockwork
SitL - books
51st century setting:
EC - Jack's original time
GitF, SitL
Repetition of mundane lines as scary/disturning
EC - "Are you my mummy?"
GitF - "We did not have the parts"
SitL - "Who turned out the lights?"
Moffatt clichés
Secretly Not Here Any More Posted Jun 1, 2008
That's what most writers tend to do though. You build up a portfolio of stock elements or themes that you can draw upon to build a basic framework, and then you mess around with the meat of the story and the fine detail.
The knack to being a good writer is making sure that it doesn't feel old, predictable or recycled while the audience is viewing it.
Moffatt clichés
Bagpuss Posted Jun 1, 2008
Ah, you just had to spoil a good moan, didn't you?
More seriously I wonder how this will affect the series when Moffatt takes the reins. Will we get a more complicated over-arching idea where each episode fills in part of a much longer plot that only makes sense when you figure out what order they go in? That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, of course.
Moffatt clichés
Secretly Not Here Any More Posted Jun 1, 2008
I think we'll get good Saturday evening entertainment, whatever he has planned.
Moffatt clichés
Jozcoz Posted Jun 4, 2008
I have to say, I relish the thought of an insanely complicated arc...
Moffatt clichés
Mister Matty Posted Jun 4, 2008
"More seriously I wonder how this will affect the series when Moffatt takes the reins. Will we get a more complicated over-arching idea where each episode fills in part of a much longer plot that only makes sense when you figure out what order they go in? That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, of course."
I think there will be a noticable change when Moffat takes over. Davies has always seen the show as being about the ordinary world where everyday things become hostile (his opening episode for the new series in 2005, Rose, was a great example of Davies' vision for the show). This partly explains the emphasis on modern-day earth; despite Davies' claims about offworld shows being "too expensive", I think he was just trying to justify the focus on his own vision for the series.
Moffat, on the other hand, seems to favour an approach with an emphasis on the weird, creepy and otherwordly. Davies seemed to theme the show as the Earth being under constant attack and the Doctor defending it; I think Moffat prefers to deal with the things that might lurk in the dark of a forgotten cave, a "haunted" house or a wardrobe. Of course, he'll still have to incorporate things like the Daleks and the like and their battleplans and it'll be interesting to see how he does it.
I think there might be other changes too; I think that Moffat won't take on the collosal writing duties that RTD did (and which I largely blamed for the poorer quality of most of his stories) preferring to delegate more writing to guest writers. I've also a hunch that the single-part episodes might be pared-down in favour of more two-parters as well. The single-part stories were largely a sop to American-led conventions (which Davies really shouldn't have so deferential too, especially as the US market wasn't that interested in the show) and meant the stories and characterisation were more simplistic than in the show's history and that too many deus ex machine endings were needed to "wrap things up" in time. An impression I get from Moffat's stories is that he cares a lot about the storytelling above the "wow" factor so I can't help but think he'll take steps to allow for more time to tell those stories.
Moffatt clichés
Mister Matty Posted Jun 4, 2008
Something I'm really keen to see is how Moffat handles the series' finales. I've not really been impressed by any of RTD's finales so far because I felt there was too much emphasis on spectacle and not enough on revelatory or exciting storytelling and plot developments. "The Parting of the Ways" probably remains the best he's managed, although the Bad Wolf revelation was a huge letdown.
Moffatt clichés
Jozcoz Posted Jun 4, 2008
I agree, "story" is much more fun than "headline grabber"
They could probably do with a few headline grabbers though... just to keep other interested...
Moffatt clichés
Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista) Posted Jul 2, 2008
Are we taking bets over how long it takes Steven Moffat to have a character announce that they are gay? Russel often manages to slip that in (fnar, fnar) in the first ten to fifteen minutes of one f his episodes.
Moffatt clichés
eloisa Posted Jul 3, 2008
Oh who cares??
People are gay, people always have been gay. It's just a relief to find a programme where some of the characters are something other than hetro and nobody makes a huge song and dance about it! Well, nobody on the show that is!!
Moffatt clichés
Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista) Posted Jul 3, 2008
Moffatt clichés
Bright Blue Shorts Posted Jul 9, 2008
For the list of cliches ... Moffat himself says that he believes the 'monsters' that are the scariest are those that show no emotion ...
EC - people with gasmasks covering faces.
GitF - clockwork robots with masks.
Blink - statues.
SitL - skeleton faces in spacesuits (skulls).
Moffatt clichés
Bagpuss Posted Jul 9, 2008
I've also noticed a tendency to not let anyone die. In SitL the bringing people back at the end seemed rather tacked on, though it was more reasonable in the others. I admit that in GitF a lot of people had died, but no-one we saw alive.
Moffatt clichés
Jozcoz Posted Jul 10, 2008
Dr Who is, though, ultimatley about optimism, that good eventually triumphs, Moffat understands that.... it might be that he likes his characters so much that he can't bear to let them die.... and if nobody dies it kinda makes it more family freindly don't you think...
If you want blood violence and exessive death then there's Torchwood... or channel 5
Moffatt clichés
Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista) Posted Jul 10, 2008
When Torchwood finally got around to killing off the least sympathetic couple in television history it wasn't "excessive". I could easily have nominated a few more characters to go with them...
Moffatt clichés
Bagpuss Posted Jul 10, 2008
Jozcoz - Dr Who in general does tend to have death. Sometimes lots and lots of death. That makes Moffatt's approach stand out. However I'm happy to say that except for SitL it didn't seem out of place or unlikely.
Moffatt clichés
Jozcoz Posted Jul 23, 2008
I did say excessive, but yes you are right.
But I would still stand by what I said, that it's always about one person (usually) the doctor just trying to do the right thing.
Moffatt clichés
Bright Blue Shorts Posted Jan 29, 2009
Watched Empty Child / Doctor Dances again recently ... occurred to me that another underlying theme with Moffat is hospitals / health ...
EC/DD ... obviously big hospital scenes.
GitF ... the ship is repairing itself.
B ... the scene where Billy dies.
SitL ... where Donna meets Dr Moon.
Moffatt clichés
Bagpuss Posted Jan 30, 2009
I forget how Donna met him, but doesn't Dr Moon count as medical in his own right? SitL has a nice mental-health-turned-on-its-head thing where it's the girl's "delusions" that are actually real.
It also occurs to me that RTD has done a lot of hospital stuff. New Earth, the autopsy in Aliens of London, and the character of Martha Jones (not to mention her first episode) spring to mind.
Key: Complain about this post
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Moffatt clichés
- 1: Bagpuss (Jun 1, 2008)
- 2: Secretly Not Here Any More (Jun 1, 2008)
- 3: Bagpuss (Jun 1, 2008)
- 4: Secretly Not Here Any More (Jun 1, 2008)
- 5: Jozcoz (Jun 4, 2008)
- 6: eloisa (Jun 4, 2008)
- 7: Mister Matty (Jun 4, 2008)
- 8: Mister Matty (Jun 4, 2008)
- 9: Jozcoz (Jun 4, 2008)
- 10: Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista) (Jul 2, 2008)
- 11: eloisa (Jul 3, 2008)
- 12: Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista) (Jul 3, 2008)
- 13: Bright Blue Shorts (Jul 9, 2008)
- 14: Bagpuss (Jul 9, 2008)
- 15: Jozcoz (Jul 10, 2008)
- 16: Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista) (Jul 10, 2008)
- 17: Bagpuss (Jul 10, 2008)
- 18: Jozcoz (Jul 23, 2008)
- 19: Bright Blue Shorts (Jan 29, 2009)
- 20: Bagpuss (Jan 30, 2009)
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