h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Oh hang on - don't they hunt female foxes too? So definition 3 isn't just inappropriate, it's unapplicable.

Yep - new dictionary time, I'm afraid.

Well, I don't want to get into a "flea-picking" contest with you, Lucinda, but I've resorted to dragging 2 big heavy encyclopaedia down from my book shelves now and they both confirm my understanding of the words 'dog' and 'fox'. If you want to use a very narrow definition of your own choosing and it works for you, I won't argue with you - but I won't waste my money on a new dictionary because you haven't convinced me.

Well it's not really of my choosing - I got it off an online dictionary - and before that off long discussions about the differences between 'dogs' and 'wolves' and cross-breeds which were half-dog, half-wolf. {it was part of some book... Call of the Wild? *shrug*}

Anyway, as you say - unimportant.

myre - "Spread the love comment on five entries in peer review today"

I agree. We should be commenting on entries and spreading good vibes.

Gandalf is back!!!!!!

Sorry for the dely but I have had a critical HDD failure, and have had to have my C- Drive totally replaced.
Being redundant, this took a little time, and cost me £100.00 -
this took me some time to accumalate....

Back to the subject in question, namely foxhunting, I seem to have opened up a massive 'can of worms'!!!!!!!!!!

If anyone wants to try to write an article that is 'balanced',
using some of my comments, you have my full permission!!!

(as long as you include Oscar Wilde's views)

I cannot see how I can, because of my own views on the subject.

Go ahead, someone.....you have my full support (and sympathy)

'G'

In that case, I think this entry _may_ be best moved to the writing workshop, where it could be used as the basis for a collaborative entry...

I do understand your reluctance to edit for balance - it is not an easy thing, emotionally and technically. Hopefully someone will indeed take up the challenge - in the meantime , do keep writing - though perhaps you should stick to less controversial topics, eh?

Lucinda
Thanx for comments!

Thw writing workshop is a good idea!

As per less contraversial topics, a visit tto my homepage will show 3 out of seven accepted - since I joined......

That is good enough for me.



'G'

Hmmm. Interesting article, but not very detailed. Some errors have already been mentioned, foxes are hunted with packs of hounds, not packs of dogs... and so on. Oh, and don't patronise us by calling us "countryfolk"...

So, let me pin my colours to the mast. I don't hunt, (I don't ride). I do shoot, but wouldn't want to shoot pheasants or other game. And it is pretty clear that hunting will be banned fairly soon. But in the meantime I marched with 300,000 other people two years ago to protest at the urban governments' complete trashing of the rural economy; and I'll be there again next year. I am not particularly pro- hunting, but I am very anti the antis. (Very anti any kind of antis, if the truth be told)

If you want to read the pro-hunting views, then the Countryside Alliance put their case at
[URL removed by moderator]

And finally, I cannot understand the logic of animal rights activists who want to put in place legislation which will result in the deaths of over 10,000 foxhounds... seems nuts to me.

I'm a country person (folk) by birth. I can't wait for foxhunting and all the other cruel bloodsports.
Please don't tell me that most of the hounds can't have a home found for them, cos it just isn't true. Unless the huntsmen have the same contempt for the life of their hounds as they do for the life of a fox. To avoid the (quite minimal) effort of finding new homes for the hounds huntsmen will quite happily drown their hounds in a bucket or shoot them. Says it all really doesn't it. It isn't the ban on hunting that will cause the deaths of the hounds, its the idiots who currently own them. And what about drag-hunting? That involves lots of dogs and no death - why not encourage drag hunts to fill the gap that foxhunting leaves behind and give the dogs a purpose to live?

As you can probably gather, I'm quite anti the pro-hunters!

Oops. Add 'to be banned' to the end of the 2nd sentence. Ta.

*shrugging off my italic status for a moment*

I do think it is really important that we just stop getting really sentimental about animals here.

if you want to "save" foxes then have them reclassified under law. They are classed as vermin mainly because they kill for fun as well as food. Thus British law dictates their numbers must be controlled. Hounds are difficult to rehome because of the lifestyle they are used to (predominantly canine pack, ultra fit etc etc.) There is nothing wrong with shooting an animal at the end of its working life. It is not a nice thing to do but s**t happens.

There is nothing humane about taking a hound (or any domesticated animal) out of the environment it is used to at an adult age and expecting it to get used to a whole new lifestyle. That is cruel. I know someone who adopted the hound that she puppy walked. First it destroyed her house and then it pined away. It just stopped eating and literally turned its back to the wall and gave up the ghost.

I do not hunt, I ride. But I will defend to the hilt the right of people to hunt, shoot and fish (which I do do). Because if who will stand up for my rights to ride, fish or let my dog chase a rabbit? I hope that some one will not turn round to me and say what I do is cruel because I fiercely love my animals.

One of things that makes me laugh is the accusation that this sort of thing does not happen in a rational world. Hello? What is rational about a world where half the population are starving, where 2 women in this country die every week at the hands of their partners, where there is VAT on sanitary products because they are not deemed as essential, where big corporations exploit 12 year old kids in the 3rd world in the name of profit. Can we get this into some perspective? There are bigger issues facing us all.

Incidentally I note no one campaigning about the thousands of rats that are killed each week. Funny that one...

All those bad things you mentioned Abi, about people starving, men beating women to death, VAT on sanitary products, kids being exploited and so on - people don't do those things for fun and they're not celebrated as fine old British traditions. Decent people are appalled by things like that. It's often the same nice, decent people (who are upset by the folks who enjoying tormenting and killing animals) who try to do something about the other outrages that go on in the world. Sorry to trot out a cliché, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Also, it could be that we'll never get all the other horrors sorted out as long as there are people who think it's ok to enjoy the suffering of others - whether those animals doing the suffering are human or not.

I hate to tear the scouts away from ripping apart Abi in a 'humane' manner, but can somebody second me on the workshop thing, or tell me why I'm wrong?

Thanks...

Thanks Abi, for explaining why hounds usually cannot be rehoused successfully.

There are a shedload of issues here - Jan Struther described field sports as "Indefensible but irrisistable".

Hunting is not the way you would choose to keep down foxes if you were to start from scratch. But it is here, it employs tens of thousands of people, not to mention tens of thousands of hounds and horses. You can tell land which is maintained for hunting from land which isnt, just by looking at it, because cover is maintained, which benefits all wildlife.

And although I may not be particularly pro hunting (or abortion, or boxing, or heroine; or s&m) I am not arrogant enough to assume that my views are in some way better than those of the people who do choose those options.

In other words for me it is about freedom of choice, the rural economy, and the ignorant arrogance of urbanfolk.

I quite like Lucinda's suggestion of a workshop. Perhaps the article could be entitled "Foxhunting, the pros and cons"?

Hi guys! Me again.

And I am sorry if I sounded arrogant last night - I have had a bad couple of days and been in a shockingly bad mood.

I used to be very anti field sports but had to re-evaluate my whole way of thinking when I discovered the joys of fly fishing. Shocking huh? I fish because I like trout and believe that I would rather have a fish on my dish that has lived a wild life and then had a quick bop on the head from me then has spent its life in a fish farm covered in sores and lice.

I am not a hunter, but I have read through the issues. My personal ethics mean that I have come to believe that hunting is the lesser of two evils. I am not saying it is right, but IMHO I do not want to live in a sanitised world where I am cocooned from the realities of how harsh existence is. I will explain issues where I think that they have been misunderstood, but I would never dictate to any one how they should feel about what is a very emotive issue. I know it is emotive - I have had to come to terms with a different way of thinking. In fact I have to constantly justify what I do to myself.

It is important that this is done rationally to produce a balanced article. It does h2g2 no good to have an article that does not present both sides of the argument. After all if we all agreed about things like this, life would be exceptionally boring.

I am also a fan of boxing... there really is no hope for me is there? Dantes fourth circle of hell - here I come!

Hope you are all well and happy.

Love
Abi

Oh my, Abi, I still love you!

Lucinda/A Girl called Ben!

I don't know how it works, but as I said earlier, if you can get this article into the workshop, go ahead.....


You have my blessing....(and sympathy!!!!!)

'G'

I know this is two days old, but drag hunting isnt a suitable alternative to hunting...

The fact is that they may envolve hounds, have people follow the scent etc. Drag Hunting is much more 'jumpy' or equestrian. Drag Hunts are basically (IMO) Boring little hacks with lots of jumps. truth be told though, and I'm trying not to be Blase or whatever, that many other people find Drag Hunting Petrifying, becuase to drag you have to jump, and you have to be a good horse person. In all honesty, many of the Hunting Field, like to sit on a hill on their horse and watch the Hounds. Thats why there are as many foot followers as there are mounted. (If you want to know why I like hunting as opposed to Drag Hunting, its unpredictable, and it puts you in places that you would never get into otherwise, i.e. Cantering down a hill, trying to cut off the hounds running for the main round and having to jump a five bar gate at the bottom. Drag Hunting cant replicate that for me.)

Drag Hunting provides no service. You would have to pay the farmers to ride across the land, and even then you would be lucky to if you found some takers. Aslo Drag hunting actually needs a decent bit of country to hunt across i.e. jumps. Believe it or not, but the vast majority of country does not lend itself to drag hunting, and this is why Drag Hunting mainly takes place on estates.

So apart from Drag Hunting not being econmically viable in most area, and lacking the field, there is not much point in keeping the pack is there?

Now, the Huntsman's contempt for life. Know any Huntsmen? Well before you sprout off about anything, it is ABSOLUTELY essential for a Huntsman/woman (yes, there are women) to love their Hounds. If they dont, then there is no bond, the Hounds dont respond and everything goes to knackers. Anybody who has tried to get a hound to respond to them, and the hounds dont know them, will not get anywhere fast.

20'000 hounds on the market? come on, be serious. It does not take a little time, it takes quite considerable time. Considering that 1 hunt near me has 70 couple of hounds and 30 couple of pups. that is 210 hounds. 210, Pack animals. As has been said, they dont respond well to not being in a pack. You would need to take 2-4 pups (not hounds) before you will even get around this obstacle. As has been said before they ripp the house to pieces. These are just pups btw. Fox Hounds, harriers and Beagles need a Helluva lot of exercise. More than the average dog, alot more.

Rehousing anything other than pups, will not work. You can not keep Dogs or bitches in the house, you need a stable or a decent kennel. They will fight if your not carefull...

Ehh

Its just too much to explain.

In short its a lot of work, for just one doghound, bitch, pup. Who will not be model dogs. The amount either drowned, chucked away etc, would far, greatly exceed those successfully rehomed.

Naivety..

Oh and I dont give a monekys whether people think they are country folk or not. All I care about if people are of sound mind, have a healthy dose of Common sense (An all too rare commidity these days) and they dont like being tread upon.

BTW I would like to lie you with one on Tony's Lies

"Well, it was defeated in the lords, but well try and get in through next session".

Tony Blair was refering to the the failure of the Private Members bill of Micheal Fosters (LACS, also an Angler BTW), to get past Parliment. This was a lie as it never reached the House of Lords and wasnt even half way completed in the Commons. The failure was due to the ammendments being tabled which meant that the bill would actually be acceptable, for in its orginal state meant that you couldnt walk a dog off a lead.

Also please note, that any such ban on hunting, to enforce it, the Government will be violating several human rights (Search without warrant, the offenders would have to prove their innocence, not the proscuetion to prove their guilt etc).

And also the Third way, will mean that any owner of a dog, will have to buy a £500(0) license, to legally walk a dog off the lead.

And considering that the Burns Report, widely accepted as gospel by all parties, states quite clearly that Hunting is no more, no less cruel than other methods of pest Control. So much so in fact, that the arguement for banning has changed from being cruel to being outdated and inefficent.

Go figure. All this is, is a cunning Maskiorva by the Labour Government to keep the populace distracted from thier failings. Such as a Mental Health act amongst many other important acts, are too be shelved until after the election.

Some People need to get their Priorties right.


Well Apart from that i must apolgise, it was going to be a slight correction on the theory that Drag Hunting can replace hunting, but it kind of detriorated into a rant about everything. Sorry, but hunting is one of my Passions.

Hi Peeps!

I would also second/Third(?) this tgoing in to a writers workshop, having read this thread!
(IMHO) I would like to express my opinion that the ban on hunting with hounds would be preferable, to it's continuation!
Has no one ever played an old logic game I remeber from my ZX spectrum called foxes and rabbits, - the number of foxes is controlled by the number of available rabbits and the relevant numbers of each species oscillate and regulate the other.

As for chicken hut raids, these can be avoided by more vigilant chicken owners. A fox in a chicken shed is a bit like a hungry chld in a unattended sweet shop, with all the sweets in sealed glass jars! well, that's an analogy I feel like using here.

respect to everyone's opinions, but I can't agree with the spilling of blood as a sport!

Zarniroop (Ex-Pesident of the universe)