A Conversation for Slayerville
Wizard of Oz or Witch of Joss?
Otus Nycteus Started conversation Jun 16, 2005
During a recent re-watch the Buffy movie, one of the scenes actually sparked an idea (yes, Carlyle, it's true). I don't remember if this has been discussed already, somewhere on Talk Buffy. If it has, I apologize. (And could you please post a link so I can read what has been said?)
The scene: the final showdown between Pike and his friend-turned-vampire Benny. When Benny thinks he has Pike at his mercy, he suddenly quotes (and acts like) the cowardly lion from The Wizard of Oz.
The idea: It occurred to me that the core Scoobies (Buffy, Willow, Xander and Giles) are the perfect opposites of Dorothy and her friends. Compare them with the Scoobies' role in the joining spell (in season 4's Primeval):
The Scarecrow wants a brain - Giles is Sophus, Mind
The Tin Man wants a heart - Xander is Animus, Heart
The Lion wants courage - Buffy is Manus, hand
(okay, not perfect, but a fighter - ie Buffy - has to have courage)
So that leaves Willow (Spiritus, Spirit) the Witch as the opposite of Dorothy. Not unlogical, because in the movie D has to kill the Wicked Witch of the West. So, yes, another match.
However, this leaves two questions nagging in the back of my mind:
Has Willow secretly been the main character in the series all along?
And who is the counterpart for Toto? Angel? (Wasn't there a reference somewhere about him having 'puppy-dog eyes?') Dawn? Spike? Oz? (Nomen est omen, right?)
And does anyone remember more (overt) references to the Wizard of Oz in the series (apart from Oz and Rhona's mean 'Ding, dong, the witch is dead'? I'm quite sure I haven't seen flying monkeys - if you don't count Adam and Andrew...
Wizard of Oz or Witch of Joss?
Otus Nycteus Posted Jun 17, 2005
Oops, for 'Adam' read 'Warren', of course. (Well, he was played by Adam Busch.)
Wizard of Oz or Witch of Joss?
Carlyle Ferris Posted Jun 18, 2005
I'm not that familiar with The Wizard of Oz and don't wish to be familiar with the Buffy Movie but it is well known that JW takes a lot of themes from Marvel Comics and the like but I have never heard of him using Dorothy as a theme. They do say that there are only ten stories in the world so it may be a coincidence.
C
The triumphant return of Jonny Maelstrom
JonnyMaelstrom Posted Jun 20, 2005
Hi. Long time no speak. gotta run again now, so I'll be brief. Just thought I'd point out, in my know-it-all way, that Buffy refers to Xander's fellow hyena people as winged monkeys in The Pack. This is before they realise they are in fact, hyena people.
The triumphant return of Jonny Maelstrom
Kat Posted Jun 20, 2005
Two things worth mentioning - one I noticed during re-watching. In "Touch Love" whilst argueing with Tara, Willow's responce to Tara's fears about how powerful she's getting Willow states she's a good witch - Gilda in the bubble not the wicked witch on her bicycle - or words to that effect. In "Grave" gone throughly bad she sends the ball of energy to blat Jonathan, Andrew and anyone else in the way with the words "fly my pretty fly" the same words used by the Wicked Witch of the west when she tends her flying monkeys after Dorothy. Knowing Buffy writers this is probably an intential reference.
The second is that this gives me a chance to drag up my own Wizard of Oz metaphor that's been drifting round in my brain. In this one it isn't the scoobies who represent Dorothy's traveling compansions at all - it's the significant men in her life. The thing is that each of the companions already has what they seek - all the wizard does is give them something which acknowledges the fact - on their journey they each discover they have it and they merely learn to use it by journeying with Dorothy and doing their best to protect her and help her find her way home.
Scarecrow = Riley - ok it kinda of fits with his cowboy thing and some might say why does Riley need a brain? Professor Maggie Walsh's (aka the bitch monster of death) appreciation of him and her quasi maternal feelings seem to stem from the fact that he's one of the sharper tools in the shed that is the Intiative. HOWEVER - what Riley gets out of his time with Buffy is to learn to open and free his mind - to ask questions which as a soldier he's not be encouraged to before, to realise that the world is a more complex place than he originally thought that shades of grey exist amongst the black and white. Illimitately he is prepared to trust her judgement over Spike's chip in "KIM" because he understands she understands some things better than he does. It takes an intelligent person with an open mind to realise that they do not know everything and respect someone's else intelligence and greater knowledge in a particular field.
which leads us nicely too -
Tin Man = Spike - the thing that makes Spike different is he feels more than the average vamp like Riley's scarecrow what Buffy teaches him is use more fully that which he already possesses. If Riley is too narrow/closed minded, Spike is centred on looking to his feelings to forfill his own emotional needs. He learns a hard lesson at the end of season six through Buffy, who will not compromise her own concern for the welfare of humanity in general, that this is an emotional dead end and will only bring pain for both himself and the person he cares about this leads his to the decision to become ensouled and therefore further open his own heart to the suffering and pain of the many as well as a specific beloved. It is this concern of the greater good rather than the good of one specific beloved person which leads to the self-sacrifice to close the hellmouth.
Of course using the amulet bought from the LA by another ex of Dorothy:
the Cowardly Lion = Angel - when we first meet Angel he's a bit of wimp really someone sulking in the shadows. He admits he's afraid of the Master and as someone says he does not act bravely even at the end of the series - it takes Xander's words to motivate him to walk into the den of the true lion - The Master to rescue Buffy. The first time we see Angel act bravely is fight with Buffy against The Three and against Darla. Angel learns what courage is from Buffy and he is still learning the lessons as late as the middle of season three where she teaches to fight the hardest battle of all against the monster inside during "Amends" rather than killing himself to be rid of it. It is this bravery which also prompts Angel to do things which are difficult for the benefit of those he loves - he acquires moral courage as well as courage to face physical threats and this courage to take a decision and the consequences no matter what to save someone he loves that is the force that leads him to accept the bargain that puts the amulet into his hands.
this all leads to the benefit for
Dorothy=Buffy - poor Dorothy only wanted to go home anyway from a place where people chasen her for ruby slippers. She wanted to live a normal life with her family, her desire to fly over the rainbow gone when she realised it ain't all it's cracked up to be. In a sense this is what her compansions give her - Riley the scarecrow trusts her judgement - this enables her to let the Spike the tin man - lose his chip and therefore defend his own life against his own wicked witch after the ruby slippers of vengence - ruby red slang term for blood - who is therefore in place to take the amulet delivered by Angel the cowardly lion as a result of the death of the hellmouth caused by all these factors Buffy is free of the hellmouth/Oz and free to live where and how she wants - free to find her way home. It is also ironic in this context that the episode in which Angel gets the amulet is called "Home" and it is prompted by his wish to give someone else a home.
There is of course someone missing from the occasion - Glinda the good witch in this who teaches Dorothy the ruby slippers which belonged to the wicked watch of the West so if it is the bad witch's slippers use as instructed by the good witch which send of Dorothy home. To bring us back to the start is Willow, the user of the spell to share the power amongst all slayers, sending Dorothy home too - as she states in "Touch Love" Glinda or as she quotes from in "Grave" - the wicked witch. The answer is probably both - Willow realises she has the choice to be Glinda in the bubble or the wicked witch on the bicycle through the influence of Buffy - Willow is both but ultimately Glinda. Especially since Glinda instructs Dorothy to use the witch's slippers and Buffy asks Willow to use her magic to create the spell sharing power. The witch's power is used for good. Willow often helps Buffy as Glinda does Dorothy but occassional once diliberately, a few times by accident, she is part of the problem.
Of course Dorothy defeats the witch in order to rescue Toto - Xander brings back Willow from the black magic. Toto - the faithful and brave little dog who means so much to Dorothy, is probably Xander in the journey.
This would make Giles - the Wizard - as the person who points the way to Dorothy having to defeat the Witch - in this case representing all the big bads - but who ultimately is swept off in his own baloon (of his opinion which is different to Buffy's) before he can fully help Dorothy.
I hope you enjoyed my journey along the yellow brick road.
The triumphant return of Jonny Maelstrom
Kat Posted Jun 20, 2005
It is also worth pointing out that the metaphor is that Giles as the Wizard is that Dorothy spends most of the film journeying towards the wizard then he sends her away to face the witch on her own and when she comes back - she discovers when he gives her more dismissive advice that he is as ordinary as she is but after derating him for a bit, she is still able to respect him.
Wizard of Oz or Witch of Joss?
Otus Nycteus Posted Jun 21, 2005
Nice one, Vamp Advocate! Of course, it may well be that both our theories are 'true'. In any case, the Wizard of Oz seems to be an important source for BtVS. (And I'm glad to see that this thread seems to have brought back a spark of life to Slayerville...)
Good to hear from you again, Johnny. Don't wait to long for your next triumphant return.
Wizard of Oz or Witch of Joss?
elmsyrup Posted Jun 22, 2005
And there actually BEING a character called Oz...
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