h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

A18152354 - The Cultures

The social cohesion in this society had reached a very sophisticated level, and this without a ruling elite or noble class.

Is there any evidence that there was no elite class?


3,300 BC --> 3300 BC

Iceland’s volcano Hekla, show an eruption -- insert comma after volcano and change show to shows

This is the time that the migration of the Beaker people into Britain -- change that to of

Then in 1159 BC the volcano Hekla erupted again, and this may have brought further climatic change2, possibly leading to the end of the Wessex culture in 1500 BC and the Beaker culture 100 years later in 1400 BC. -- the dates don't match here. If the eruption happened in 1159 BC, it couldn't have caused the earlier end of the Wessex and Beaker cultures.

the style the pottery vessels in production --> the style of the pottery vessels in production

worshipers --> worshippers

gold coin sized discs --> gold coin-sized discs

associated with the beaker culture --> associated with the Beaker culture

They were established in Britain and eastern Ireland -- I'd dispute that about eastern Ireland. Although the characteristic beakers were found, they don't appear to have been part of a distinct culture. It seems that the beakers came to Ireland, but the Beakers never did.

(My trusty assistant Beaker)

In the section on Roman Barrows, can you explain the difference between barrows and burial mounds, as I thought a barrow was a burial mound.

The prevailing population of Roman Britain also tended to use the older monuments, and bowl barrows were a particularly favoured choice.
-- what do you mean by "prevailing population" here?
Prevail means "to gain ascendancy through strength or superiority". Do you mean the Romans themselves? And if so, why do you say in the paragraph at the start of the section that they didn't use barrows?

The Common Traits list would be better if laid out as a bullet point list.

I propose as a new standard that all BC dates with five or more digits should have a comma in them, as it is very difficult to read the difference between 500000 and 50000.

Why is the Barrow and Monument Time Line repeated in this entry, when it is already in the Introduction?

G

A18065982 - Bowl Barrows

The barrows raged from --> The barrows ranged from

Again, I don't see the need to include the Timeline (which is quite bulky) in each entry.

G

A18066044 - Bell Barrows

"This was 500 to 750 years after the appearance of the first Beaker People barrow c. 2500 BC, and it is contemporary with the pond barrow, of the same culture." -- It's not clear what "of the same culture" means. It sounds from this as if it means the Beaker culture, but the Entry on pond barrows says it is the Wessex culture. It should be reworded to make it clear.

with men laying on their right side facing the east and women laying on their left side -- this should be "lying", not "laying". Laying means to place something on something else.

G

A18066116 - Disc Barrows

The central mounds of disc barrow would be no higher than of metres -- there's something missing from this.

"laying" --> "lying" as in previous entry.


When you say a flat surface, do you mean a level surface? If so, how could they be built on hill slopes?

G

A18021197 - Pond and Saucer Barrows

The ditch spoil providing the material for the barrow and bank. -->
The ditch spoil provided the material for the barrow and bank.

"laying" --> "lying"

This entry starts the intro by talking about "pond and saucer barrows". It then goes on to describe pond barrows but never mentions saucer barrows. Are these two different types or one type called a "pond and saucer barrow"? If the latter, please add an comment explaining this, early in the entry.

The section on Winterbourne Stoke seems to be out of place. It would be more approopriate in the entry on Disc Barrows.



G

Right, I've made all those changes, except:

Post 21 - "Is there any evidence that there was no elite class?" - I've removed the line stating this in the Entry, but Bob might be able to clarify further.

Post 21 - "the dates don't match here. If the eruption happened in 1159 BC, it couldn't have caused the earlier end of the Wessex and Beaker cultures." - I don't know enough about this to make any changes yet, so Bob will have to explain this.

Post 24 - "When you say a flat surface, do you mean a level surface? If so, how could they be built on hill slopes?" - again, this is a question for Bob to answer.

Post 25 - "The section on Winterbourne Stoke seems to be out of place" - I've moved it to the Introduction as it applies to several types of barrow.

Alex

A18066152 - Viking Barrows

the pagan ere --> the pagan era
of East Anglia -- add a full stop
The barrow had since been robbed --> The barrow has since been robbed
in the middle the ship --> in the middle of the ship

seven Byzantine silver bowls -- perhaps link to A13970621 which will be Edited soon.

accomodated --> accommodated

G

That's them all done.

Sorted

Just waiting for Bob to look at the ones I don't know enough about.

Hi Gnomon
Thank you for your interest and I have sorted out what I think will cover all your points, please advise.

Alex thanks for the nudge on the other thread. Please could you help and ammend as required. Thanks in advance.

Q: Dolmens, also known as Cromlechs or Hunebedden, were Megalithic single-chambered monuments constructed with between three and five stone slabs and covered by an mound of earth. -- are you sure of this?

A: I am sure as I cant see the point of an open structure, it they were built to expose a body for de fleshing then a wooden strcture would be more efficent in termas of manpower.

I know that in Ireland it used to be thought that Dolmens were originally covered with earth, but opinion has changed in the last 20 years, and it is now thought that they were built to be exposed, with no mound. I'd be very surprised if the identical-looking dolmens in Britain were built in a completely different way. Look into this - if there is a difference of opinion among the scholars, at least report this in the entry.

Alex please as suggested ammend to include the words -
>there is a difference of opinion among the scholars< or some thing similar.


In the Barrow Time Line, I'd like to see the terms Palaeolithic, Mesolithic and Neolithic explained. They are "Old Stone Age", "Middle Stone Age" and "New Stone Age" respectively.
Alex I agree I should have thougnt of this, I know what it means others might not, please as suggested ammend with regard to the sotne age explanations


"Built in the early and middle Neolithic era, long barrows were oblong burial mounds which were higher and wider at one end with a chamber or chambers or >some were< just earth >burial< mounds."


"were >possably< reusable >tombs as they< could be re-opened >and< access gained after the initial burial."
I think this might be better.

They are not attributable to a culture --> They are not attributable to a particular culture

All other gramitical corrections I agree need to be made for clarity


Thnk you chaps


Bob...

The social cohesion in this society had reached a very sophisticated level, and this without a >Hereditary< ruling elite or noble class.

Is there any evidence that there was no elite class?
.........................................................
Then in 1159 BC the volcano Hekla erupted again, and this may have brought further climatic change2, possibly >causing a chain of climatic changes< leading to the end of the Wessex culture in 1500 BC and the Beaker culture 100 years later in 1400 BC. -- the dates don't match here.

If the eruption happened in 1159 BC, it couldn't have caused the earlier end of the Wessex and Beaker cultures.
.........................................................
They were established in Britain and >cultural traces were found in< eastern Ireland >these could be due however to imported artifacts<

-- I'd dispute that about eastern Ireland. Although the characteristic beakers were found, they don't appear to have been part of a distinct culture. It seems that the beakers came to Ireland, but the Beakers never did (Its to open to debate to dispute will the ammendment above solve the problem)

The distribution map articles and probable population
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Beaker_culture.png
.........................................................

In the section on Roman Barrows, can you explain the difference between barrows and burial mounds, as I thought a barrow was a burial mound.

In truth there is not much differance mainly time and culture. Also in the period that saw the end of the barrow only special persons (royalty) were buried in the more monumental mounds, while important and wealthy commoners were cremated and buried in the smaller and (by then) old fasioned barrows.
.........................................................

The >rural indigenous< population of Roman Britain also tended to use the older monuments, and bowl barrows were a particularly favoured choice.
-- what do you mean by "prevailing population" here?
Prevail means "to gain ascendancy through strength or superiority". Do you mean the Romans themselves? And if so, why do you say in the paragraph at the start of the section that they didn't use barrows?

Bad use of words here my fault
..........................................................

The Common Traits list would be better if laid out as a bullet point list.
Agreed
..........................................................

I propose as a new standard that all BC dates with five or more digits should have a comma in them, as it is very difficult to read the difference between 500000 and 50000.
Agreed
...........................................................
Why is the Barrow and Monument Time Line repeated in this entry, when it is already in the Introduction?

To prevent the need to switch between emtries and to allow the casual reader to see the see

Sorry clicked the wrong button

Why is the Barrow and Monument Time Line repeated in this entry, when it is already in the Introduction?

To prevent the need to switch between entries and to allow the casual reader to see the historical setting.


Bob...

You still haven't explained how the end of the Wessex culture in 1400 BC could be caused by something that happened 250 years later.

I wouldn't trust everything on Wikipedia if I were you. Laurence Flanagan, archaeologist and former keeper of antiquities at the Ulster Museum, in his book "Ancient Ireland: Life Before the Celts" expresses serious doubts about the Beaker people ever arriving in Ireland - the beakers undoubtedly arrived, but none of the burial customs did.

But it's a small point, and not worth worrying about.

Hi guys thanks for the hard work, my response to the following questions raised so far.

23
This now reads
This was 500 to 750 years after the appearance of the first Beaker People barrow c. 2500 BC, and it is contemporary with the pond barrow of the Beakers.


24
The central mounds of disc barrow would be no higher than >2 to 3< metres -- there's something missing from this.

When you say a flat surface, do you mean a level surface? Yes level or levelled surface.

25
This entry starts the intro by talking about "pond and saucer barrows". It then goes on to describe pond barrows but never mentions saucer barrows. Are these two different types or one type called a "pond and saucer barrow"? If the latter, please add an comment explaining this, early in the entry.


Alex Please amend the beginning of this entry to read as….


It is considered that pond were most likely used as mortuaries or ritual monuments of the 'Wessex Culture' (2000–1500 BC). This indicates the appearance of the pond barrow was c. 2000 - 1750 BC, 500 to 750 years after the appearance of the first Beaker People barrow c. 2500 BC. Most of this type have no ditch1, but just a clear well-defined outer bank. The most notable feature is a dish-shaped depression in the ground surface inside the bank that gives this genre of barrow its name. The surface inside the bank has been scooped out to form a depression and provide the material for the bank. The saucer barrows differs in that the area inside the ditch and bank has a low mound no higher than the surrounding bank. The ditch spoil provided the material for the barrow and bank.

Construction
Built on a flat surface, saucer barrows were built with a low central mound no higher than the surrounding bank, and there was a ditch cut between the mound and its surrounding bank.

The pond barrow were built on a level surface with no central mound and were constructed simply by digging out the ground surface within a five to 20 metre circle to form a shallow pit with sloping sides. The excavated spoil was used to build the bank that surrounds the barrow.
The saucer barrows were also built on a level surface with a low central mound being erected over the burial pit, which usually contained a female burial. The burial pit was square or rectangular and some were stone lined, with the latter being known as kyst burials. The dead were put in the tomb with the head to the south, men lying on the right side facing the east, while women were placed in the grave lying on the left side facing the west. The surrounding ditch provided the bulk of the building material for the mound, and the barrow mound and ditch were then enclosed by a bank.

Thanks
Bob…

Hi Gnomon

It is the only map I could find for population spread. I still think haoever that it is an indication of the influence of the cukture if not the migration...

Bob...

Ok, I think I've covered all of those corrections - just the matter of the time-travelling volcanic explosion to sort out now.

Alex

The start of the "pond and saucer barrows" needs more work. The grammar is all over the place, and I'm not sure that it is clear when it is decribing pond barrows and when it is decribing saucer barrows.

Hello Bob and Alex
I've only just started reading your project, so I only have comments on the intro at the moment.

The passage and central chamber was covered >> were covered
the commonest type of barrow. >> Is 'commonest' a word, or should it be 'most common'?
(c. 10,000 BC - 5000 BC) >> (c. 10,000 - 5000 BC) - matches format of other dates

Off to read some more

Done

Hi Alex can you cut and paste this lot into the front of the entry please.

It is considered that pond barrows were most It is considered that pond were most likely used as mortuaries or ritual monuments of the 'Wessex Culture' (2000–1500 BC). This indicates that the appearance of the pond barrow was c. 2000 - 1750 BC, 500 to 750 years after the appearance of the first Beaker People barrow c. 2500 BC. Most of this type has no ditch, just a clear well-defined outer bank. The most notable feature of a pond barrow is the dish-shaped depression in the ground surface
The surface inside the bank has been scooped out to form a depression and provide the material for the bank.
inside the bank that gives this genre of barrow its name.
The saucer barrows differs in that the area inside the ditch and bank has a low mound no higher than the surrounding bank. The ditch spoil provided the material for the barrow and bank.


Construction
Pond barrows were built on a level surface with no mound, and were constructed by simply digging out the ground surface within a five to 20 meter circle to form a shallow pit with sloping sides. The excavated spoil was used to build the bank that surrounds the barrow. The use as mortuaries or ritual monuments is supported by the discovery of post holes within the barrow. These are possibly the remains of mortuary platforms Similar to those used by some native North American Indian tribes. and indicate that the burial practice included de-fleshing the body.

The saucer barrows were also built on a leveled surface, and had a low central mound no higher than the bank surrounding the barrow, and there was normally a ditch cut between the mound and its surrounding bank. The central mound was erected over the burial pit, which usually contained a female burial. The burial pit was square or rectangular and some were stone lined, with the latter being known as kyst burials. The dead were put in the tomb with the head to the south, men lying on the right side facing the east, while women were placed in the grave lying on the left side facing the west. The surrounding ditch provided the bulk of the building material for the mound, and the barrow mound and ditch were then enclosed by a bank.

I put the rough notes on last night
Thanks
Bob…