A Conversation for The Forum

Marketing & Advertising

Post 21

swl

Well, the big companies don't have an advertising wing for a start. When they have a new product to launch, they take it to an advertising agency. They choose the agency on their track record - not how much they cost, but how they have affected sales in the past. Good agencies can charge high fees because they can point to results. And you may be critical of the amounts, but an advertising agency can win you an election or make your product sell in millions. Obviously then, advertising is effective.

Anyway - CGI is pretty cheap nowadays.


Marketing & Advertising

Post 22

Mister Matty

>And you may be critical of the amounts, but an advertising agency can win you an election or make your product sell in millions. Obviously then, advertising is effective.

This isn't my point, though. The companies don't *need* expensive CGI to create brand awareness. An advert featuring a 4x4 bouncing around terrain whilst Mr Gravelvoice intones about its abilities still creates the same brand awareness that a multi-million CGI-fest does. The important bit is the logo at the end and the company tagline. In fact, car adverts are actually notorious for being full of flashy imagery (expensive or otherwise) but falling-down on their purpose brand awareness because people remember the adverts but not the make of car being sold.

And here's the thing to remember: the costs of this advertising aren't magicked up from nowhere; they're passed onto the consumer because we supply the money. When companies spend millions on adverts or advertising campaigns the cost comes back down to us in more expensive products.

>Anyway - CGI is pretty cheap nowadays.

No it isn't otherwise "Doctor Who" and countless other sci-fi shows wouldn't be so expensive to produce. It's cheaper to create certain effects now than twenty years ago because CGI is easier than what was needed before but it's not "cheap" by any means.


Marketing & Advertising

Post 23

swl

That's a matter of personal opinion that isn't actually borne out of researched facts though is it? Do you have an analysis of the effectiveness of various ad campaigns? Because if you can prove that cheap, simple ads are more effective the car companies will love to hear from you. Do you think they throw millions at advertising for fun? They do it to increase sales and they have half a century of experience to draw on.

Companies don't get to be as successful as they are by wasting money and not keeping an eye on the bottom line. The kind of ads you express a preference for actually remind me of 1970s British Leyland ads - and we know what happened to them. smiley - winkeye

It comes down to what I said earlier - the ads cater to the lowest common denominator in order to appeal to the widest audience possible. Of course, anyone with a modicum of critical reasoning will be insulted & offended by some ads. But, sorry to say it, intelligent buyers are in a minority.


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Ford made a profit of $3.5bn in 2005, after the $1bn ad budget was deducted. Assuming they still made $4.5bn if they hadn't advertised, that profit goes to the shareholders. So in effect, advertising comes out of the shareholder's pocket.

And that's the rub. We're talking about private companies. How they spend their profits is actually none of our business. If you think they waste it, I rather think they would say differently. If you can prove they waste it, they'll probably be interested in hiring you.


Marketing & Advertising

Post 24

Mister Matty

>That's a matter of personal opinion that isn't actually borne out of researched facts though is it?

Actually, it's based on a story I read a while back pointing out this exact problem and my own (admittedly annecdotal) research. I'm actually quite fascinated to know why car ads do this so badly. People always seem to be able to recall what kind of baked beans, chips or soft drink an ad is flogging but car ads just don't have the same effect.

Seriously, think of some notable car ads you've seen and see if you can remember the make of car and the company. Compare it with ads for other products. That "CGI" ad I mentioned that started this off, I can't recall what the car is called or even the name of the manufacturer. Those impressive "transformer" ads from a few years ago? Can't recall the make of car and not sure about the manufacturer (I think it's citroen or renault)

>Do you have an analysis of the effectiveness of various ad campaigns? Because if you can prove that cheap, simple ads are more effective the car companies will love to hear from you. Do you think they throw millions at advertising for fun?

I think they throw millions at it because they're very rich and because they can. I don't think it's remotely necessary. Good, effective adverts can be created without throwing £5m at them. One of the most famous (and successful) advertising campaigns in British history was Tango's "You've Been Tangoed" campaign of the 1990s. Budget-wise it couldn't stand close to a lot of far far more expensive ads but it was much more effective at creating an impression and selling the product.

>They do it to increase sales and they have half a century of experience to draw on.

But they very often completely misread the market, don't they? Remember the Hula Hoops "Steve Threlfall" campaign? Obviously aimed at "ironic" student types, big campaign, didn't work, ditched rather quickly. First time I saw those adverts I knew they'd gone for a stinker as, I'd guess, did most people.


Marketing & Advertising

Post 25

Mister Matty

Actually, here's a good example of how car advertising messes up. One of my favourite recent adverts is the one with the cliched Prussian type storming around Germany in his car. Can I remember the make of car? No. All I can remember is "typically German, made in France". That's the tagline that *should* make me recall the make of car but instead I've just got that. Any good car advert has to focus on brand awareness meaning that the thing the viewer should remember about the ad is the make of car, not that it's funny or the car changes into a CGI crocodile. Essentially, this is where car adverts need to focus but they don't because the company passes the millions, the "creatives" spend it how they like and the company is happy because the name is out there.


Marketing & Advertising

Post 26

Mister Matty

>Ford made a profit of $3.5bn in 2005, after the $1bn ad budget was deducted. Assuming they still made $4.5bn if they hadn't advertised, that profit goes to the shareholders. So in effect, advertising comes out of the shareholder's pocket.

Not sure I understand your point. Ford's (as an example) advertising budget comes out of their profits. Their profits come from the money given to them by consumers. Shareholders are part-owners of the company, they don't provide it with money otherwise companies wouldn't need markets at all. Your argument seems to be "advertising means the shareholders get less so they pay for it" whereas my argument is "the cost of advertising comes from the company profits which are provided by the consumer therefore the consumer pays for it". Ulimately, the cost of advertising has to be a (small) part of the cost of the original product. Like the cost of packaging, delivery etc etc.

>We're talking about private companies. How they spend their profits is actually none of our business

Sorry, don't agree at all. If I, as a consumer/customer/passenger/subscriber give money to a non-state body for a service/goods then it most certainly is my business what they do with it. If I take a ride on a train with filthy interiors then I am right to be upset because the company would rather spend money on nice new offices than giving the people who pay their wages a more pleasant ride.


Marketing & Advertising

Post 27

swl

Yeah - I know that add. I always hear "Typically German. Made in France. Falls apart all over the world".

To my mind, there are two kinds of ads. The ones selling something that represents a major purchase and the ones that are more "impulse" buys.

The first one - let's say it's for a trendy sports car. The marketeers identify that the likeliest buyers will be young men or women aged 20-30, professional and image-conscious but not the most affluent. The brief is given to the ad agency to produce an ad that appeals to that sector. Think Mazda and their "Zoom Zoom" campaign. That campaign showed young people racing cars on a beach. To me, as a 40-(cough) year old, I saw a cheap and gaudy car being driven irresponsibly on a beach (do they not know what salt water does to bodywork!). It didn't work for me. But my 23 year old step-son wanted one. He thought the ad for the Ford Galaxy showed a boring car. My wife wanted one because it looked comfortable.

So these ads are targeted. If you're not the target, it won't appeal to you.

With the second, let's say it's coke. The ads for this will have a broader appeal. Interestingly, despite coke being the biggest advertisers in the world, it wasn't at the forefront of the ad imagery that you object to.


Marketing & Advertising

Post 28

swl

If a private company does something you don't agree with, you don't buy their product. The only time you have grounds for complaint is when they have a monopoly, like BT or train companies.


Marketing & Advertising

Post 29

Mister Matty

>If a private company does something you don't agree with, you don't buy their product. The only time you have grounds for complaint is when they have a monopoly, like BT or train companies.

It's not that simple. If, say, a softdrink manufacturer does something I don't like or sells bad product then I stop buying; simple. But not all customer/producer relationships are so simple. Let's say I buy a subscription to a broadcasting corporation because they have exclusive rights to shows/sports I want to watch. Then let's say the company doubles the price of the subscription with no rise in quality and I find out that they've recently built themselves an expensive new headquarters and the board have awarded themselves massive rises. I object and am given the standard "our money, if you don't like it..." rebuke. Except I won't leave them because they're the only broadcaster providing the service I want and I'm a "captured" customer who they can exploit. I'd say, in that instance, that I've every right to complain about what they're doing with the money that's supposed to go towards providing my entertainment.


Marketing & Advertising

Post 30

Mister Matty

>So these ads are targeted. If you're not the target, it won't appeal to you.

I'm hardly the target market for female sanitary towels but I can still recall the "WOOOOAAAAH, BODYFORM!" adverts from a decade or so ago. It's irrelevant whether you're the target market, you should still remember the "hook" that makes you recall the product. It's this that car adverts fail to do.

"With the second, let's say it's coke. The ads for this will have a broader appeal. Interestingly, despite coke being the biggest advertisers in the world, it wasn't at the forefront of the ad imagery that you object to."

Coke's popular because it tastes nice and people like drinking it; it's a classic case of a product that needs nothing but brand awareness. Interestingly, most coke adverts I can recall are quite low-key "enjoy coca cola" efforts. Compare with the adverts of their most-famous rivals, Pepsi, who did all the high-end stuff: ridiculous CGI/SFX ads, all those multi-million megastar-featuring ads and yet coke still outsells them. A message there for the advertising industry as a whole, I think.


Marketing & Advertising

Post 31

toybox

Coke tastes nice smiley - huhsmiley - yuksmiley - winkeye

I object to some adverts which, really, don't tell you anything. I saw recently some beer which had on its label: 'one of the best beers in the world'. No, it wasn't a Danish one (the one which is '*probably* the best beer in the world'). What kind of information is that? Of course they would say that wouldn't they? Or food products which advertise 'new improved taste': how do they measure "improvement of taste"? smiley - rolleyes Isn't that just throwing meaningless glittering words at the consumer?

smiley - ale

Adverts for cars can be fairly entertaining, but when I want to buy one I'll go around collecting information from friends and other sources whose opinion I trust, not from the guy who's paid to tell us that the car is good. Certainly it is good to get the information that the car does exist at all but in the end I won't base my choice on the advert, not for once-in-a-while items anyway.

And you have other stuff (say, sponges) - who needs a brand sponge really? The unadvertised cheap stuff works just as well for me, why pay that extra money which goes to advertising? Ha. And don't tell me I need an ad to inform me that sponges exist smiley - winkeye

smiley - coffee

In short, I'm not against advertising for product awareness - last month I went to two art exhibitions which I wouldn't have known about if it hadn't been for posters. But the empty messages some adverts try to get across are just nonsense, borderlining the insult (and I won't say from which side of the border).

Speaking of which, what advertisers can get away with really makes the mind boggle. Whenever you have, say a box of cereals with flying fruits and honeycombs and whatever, we see the disclaimer 'serving suggestion'. On the other hand, you can happily print stuff like "2 = 3" (or 'new improved taste') in large friendly letters and that's fine?

End of rant, smiley - sorry about that. I'll get a Kleenex® to wipe all that foam from my mouth now smiley - winkeye


Marketing & Advertising

Post 32

Todaymueller

'My mind is like a plastic bag , that corresponds to all those ads .
It sucks up all the rubish , that is fed in through my ear .
I eat kleenex for breakfast and use soft hygenic weetabix to dry my tears .
I dont know whats going on , its the operators job not mine I said .'

poly styrene ..X-rayspecs

One of the the things that strike you when traveling in the USA , is the unrestricted advertising . Bill boards and revolving neon signs crowd the senses as you approach every town or city . In a hideous road side mish mash . TV shows are endlessly interupted by advertisments for perscription drugs that tell you to badger your doctor . It is not pretty .


best fishes......tod


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