h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

How very Orwell. You make me afraid to use my computer!

In summary response to what I've missed over the past three days:

I think things have changed. My father, at the age of six, used to ride a city bus across one of the largest cities in North America on a routine basis. At the age of six I wouldn't have been allowed to the park across the street without one of my parents or my baby-sitter.

Now I'm fifteen and I don't think I've ever been to a night-time, non-school event without a parent in tow, and I'm always in constant phone contact with one of them if I do go out. Times have changed. I don't object to my parents' caution; I'm glad they look out for me and I do believe there is certain reason to be cautious. I like that they make sure I call them when I'm out, and that they like to know my friends' parents before I get a ride somewhere with them. They are concerned for my safety, and that makes me feel safe.

Yet I cannot deny a certain paranoia among the public with regards to kidnapping, paedophilia, etc. There was an incident a few years ago in which a kid in our neighbourhood was kidnapped. As a result, all the parents panicked. For the next several months afterward, the many parks and playgrounds were completely deserted. On Halloween, there were no small children out, and maybe a dozen teenagers tops. This is overreaction. The one child is kidnapped, and the offender is dealt with. This was a separate affair - as it turned out, there was an internal motive to the case and the kidnapper was found guilty... I don't recall all the details now. But the parents in our neighbourhood were worried something would happen to their children, in one of the safest neighbourhoods in southern California.

If anything, I am concerned as much for the parents that are so worried as for their children.

"A transvestite beauty pageant in Indonesia was the scene of an unusual clash on Sunday when it was interrupted by a hardline Islamic group."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4626167.stm

"FPI leader Soleh Mahmud said: 'Before Allah punishes us with a second tsunami here in Jakarta, let us ask the police to disperse this event.' "

" 'Transvestites should not be made into a role model,' said FPI member Alawi Usman. 'We are worried it could influence our children,' he told the Associated Press."



Yeah right . . .

az

Yes, it might accidentally influence the children to be tolerant

Echo, sounds like you have sensible parents and are quite sensible yourself. It takes a bit of strength "admitting" that you need or appreciate help or guidance from your parents, but I was the same way, and can't say it's harmed me any - still have a good relationship to my mother, much better than most of my friends.


(Ye gods, it makes me feel so old to write that)

Yep, 'cause you *so* often hear kids saying 'mummy, I wnat to be a trannie when I grow up.',

Well, it's a slippery slope - a lad puts on a dress, and the next thing, he'll be thinking for himself and not wanting to die and go to Paradise, and where would we be *then*?

...MP for Flydale North?

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Err... pretty much where we are now?
*Resists spouting the usual 'religion is not a brainwashing technique' rant.*

No, in most of the extreme cases, it's indoctrination rather than actual brainwashing. It's much cheaper and easier to miseducate the young or vulnerable than try and forcibly change the mind of an unwilling adult.

In my book, someone saying 'Guy puts on dress, Deity's wrath will descend' should be asked:
"If Deity hates TGs/TSs so much, why hasn't He *already* struck them down individually? Can He only be bothered when they get together en masse? How many L/G/B/T parades anywhere in the world have *ever* been hit by lightning, tidal waves or meteorites?"
However, logic and extreme religion rarely go hand in hand.

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I think that largely depends on the religion. Many extreme religious sects (no mainstream religion is in itself extreme) *do* rely on indoctrination but there are those who use the promise of this that and the other to entice people of all ages.

Most of the extreme types also forget that until comparitively recently there was no devil figure telling people to wear dresses or smear themselves with jam or whatever. God gave mankind free will, thus basically saying "I'll give you salvation if you're good, but anything else you do is your own problem."

My personal beliefs revolve around the principle that if there is any kind of higher power He/She/It made us flawed and said "off you go, try to be nice to each other but if you don't it's not my problem. Oh, and anything illegal or weird you do won't go on your permanent record as long as it doesn't hurt anybody."

>>"...here are those who use the promise of this that and the other to entice people of all ages."

Well, I *did* carefully say "...young *or* vulnerable...".
I'd tend to count using promises of alleged far-future rewards or punishments as being part of a process of indoctrination, and include people susceptible to such promises in my 'vulnerable' category of potential recruits.

Well, I *did* carelessly mis-read your post.

Yep, 'cause you *so* often hear kids saying 'mummy, I wnat to be a trannie when I grow up.',>>

ive no problem with gay's but what if a gay couple want to adopt a child but the child thinks what there doing if wrong ,

is wrong

>ive no problem with gay's but what if a gay couple want to adopt a child but the child thinks what there doing if wrong<

I think it would be fairly unlikely for a child to form such a prejudiced opinion without having been influenced by prejudiced parents. I guess that would depend on the age of the child.

Maybe it would do some good for a child who had been influenced in such a negative way to be raised by a gay couple so that child could clearly see that "what they are doing" (what exactly are they doing? I'm not sure you've been that clear about that, tig) is in no way "wrong".

and again...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4629881.stm

paraphrase: We don't like it so you can't do it.

(what exactly are they doing? I'm not sure you've been that clear about that, tig) is in no way "wrong". >>

i'm just wondering about older children that are able to make there own minds up , say they had been brought up to think that gay is wrong and something was to happen that a gay couple came in to adopt .

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Have you ever heard of this happening? Do gay couples even adopt older children?

Re: the fuss over the Gay Pride parade in Belfast-

I'm glad I live where I do. The US has its problems, but Chicago is a fairly eclectic, democratic and overly tolerant city in general. We had out Gay Pride parade this past Sunday, over 400,000 people came to participate. I was one of them, as I have been every year for the past 18. It's the second largest parade in the city, topped only by the Fourth of July.

It's always a lot of fun, and while there is a small crowd of gay-haters on hand to protest and proselytize, it's always awesome to see people turn out in such great numbers to show their support.