h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

All these years later...

http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/887931879.html

An extract...

"Schiavo's autopsy itself proved that, prior to her death, she was never dying, was physically healthy and would have lived a long life had she not been dehydrated over a period of two weeks. Furthermore, the autopsy was unable to determine whether or not Terri was actually in a persistent vegetative state, as her estranged husband, Michael Schiavo, and his attorney claimed in their quest to have her killed.



Suzanne Vitadamo, Terri's sister, adds "If the media took the time to research Terri's case, perhaps they would understand that she was simply a woman living with a disability, just like the 50 million persons living with a disability in our country today, and was in need of only love and compassion. The media's continued quest to somehow justify her death is offensive to her memory and even more offensive to the tens of thousands of people who live with cognitive disabilities similar to Terri's."

Comments?

(Note well: This whole issue and subsequent discussion has nothing whatever to do with anyone by the name of Bush. Bringing the Bush family into it is a "red herring" and an illegitimate debating tactic. The issue is disability.)

I remember this story when it first broke.My questions at the time are the same now. If Terri had all these friends and relatives fighting to save her then why was she not being cared for by these folk in the first place?
How was an estranged husband allowed to decide her fate and not her family? Is that down to bad law?
Is it a case family and friends didn't want her to die but also didn't want the responsibility of providing 24/7 care themselves, rather rely on the state or others?
Who with-held liquids and on what authority? If doctors treating her said she wasn't in PVS then surely they wouldn't have agreed to with-hold treatment? If ordered to do so by a court then it's back to what I mentioned earlier, bad law/judgement.
Far too many questions and not enough definitive answers I feel in this case.

Http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/15/AR2005061500512.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8225637/

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/06/15/schiavo.autopsy/index.html

Not quite the same slant as that given in the link in the first post, but then you've made your views quite clear in the past, Vicky.
There are obviously a great many unknowns in this case, probably best left in peace now.

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I quite agree Teasswill. Wouldn't want to think Della is spoiling for a fight by rehashing old points of view based on some biased reports she's found that support them.

RIP


az

DellaJa Vu all over again.

How I hate the "fyi" abbreviation. My boss at work uses it all the time and it drives me round the bend...

I agree with the others here that Terri Schiavo should be allowed to rest in peace.

Persistant Vegetative State is not in my opinion a cognitive disability either. It is the complete absence of higher brain function. I know it's a Wiki page but... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistent_vegetative_state

Interestingly she was "killed by the State" in Florida - one of the States that still has the Death Penalty http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=121 a far more troubling thing.

turvy

<< If Terri had all these friends and relatives fighting to save her then why was she not being cared for by these folk in the first place?>>
As far as I know, they did want to care for her, but the husband was granted the status of next-of-kin, despite that he was living with another woman, and her blood relatives were frozen out.
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Absolutely! If I ended up in her situation, I would not want an ex-husband making decisions for me, but it could end up that way. I have to rely on his not wanting to...

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No!
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Absolutely!
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Yes, that's right!
Vicky

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First point, not Della! I have been over this for ever and a day, sick to death of it, not Della!

Second - yes, her family are biased, but that's hardly surprising is it?

Spoiling for a fight, of course not.

Vicky (not Della)

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I think it's an *equally* troubling thing, turvy...

Vicky
(See A623369 )

Her husband wasn't estranged from her, just the in-laws, and that was due to her condition.

From the other links:
"An autopsy on Terri Schiavo backed her husband’s contention that she was in a persistent vegetative state, finding that she had massive and irreversible brain damage and was blind, the medical examiner’s office said Wednesday. It also found no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused."

Since she was blind, she couldn't have been responding to the stimuli, as claimed by the family.

"Regardless of the autopsy findings, the Schindlers continue to believe their daughter was not in a persistent vegetative state,"

Regardless of the facts, in other words.

" no amount of therapy would have reversed her condition, a medical examiner said Wednesday."

Della, why did you post this in the forum where you know there are people who regularly argue with you if you didnt want an argument and werent even wiling to start a debate or consider the subject with an open mind?

"Schiavo's autopsy itself proved that, prior to her death, she was never dying,

Who ever wrote this has no idea about gramma and or how mortality works.

We are ALL dying, from the moment we are conceived there is a time limit on our life the above sentce is either badly worded or the writter is in the thrall of some eternal life fantasy.


"was physically healthy and would have lived a long life"<book.

Sorry but for a whole lot of people other than the writer and pedantic scietists life isnt being stuck in a bed being fed through a tube in state where you cant communicate or be communicated with for month after month after month after month. Life for nearly the entire rest of humanity is running/shuffling about, eating, drinknig, laughing, seeing, smelling, listening all or some of these or in other ways interacting with the world.

Which of those was Terri Schiavo doing that constituted "living" in the way that people commonly understand the word?


"Furthermore, the autopsy was unable to determine whether or not Terri was actually in a persistent vegetative state,

That's because it is very hard to tell whether or not someone has a chance of "waking" when they are already dead.


"as her estranged husband, Michael Schiavo, and his attorney claimed in their quest to have her killed.

OK lets overlook the deliberately emotive and biased use of language and focus on what's been left out. We know about the crusade of Mr. Schiavo and his slayer lawyer willing to kill for money, but what about the Doctors and other medical staff involved. The "killers" must have had backing form some of them to convince a judge. Trained experienced medical people do know a thing or two and from what Ive seen they do care about their patients above and beyond their professional remit.

If you want to know about the deaths of my granparents from cancer I'll tell you in detail again. Suffice to say the second time I saw it happen I knew there was a point of no return and that all there was to come was drug induced torpa for the dying and emotional pain and suspension of healing for the who-knew-when to be bereaved. The second time around if there had been a simple legal way to end things and let people begin to get their lives back I would have taken it if I could.







Why on earth would one of your ex's have any control over decisons about you if you were in a coma, are things different in NZ tot he rest of the Western world? You have two grown children who are registered as your children wouldnt they have any say?
Are you estranged from your ex, were you married and now divorced?



R.I.P.


Why should we leave some peolpe to rest in peace, but not others. King Tut, the wives of HenryVIII, Marilyn Monroe....?

Are we more inclined to feel sympathtic to "ordinary" folk who havent sought celebrity or fame.

Phrases seldom heard "It's terrible the way people keep going on about Hitler, they should just let him rest in peace"





As a rationalist I cant honestly imgine that Schiavo or anyone is remotely bothered by people raking through the spent coals of their lives after their death. Following the Christian teaching you're either in heaven or hell so people chewing the fat down (or up) on earth isnt going to bother you too much in the grand scheme of things is it now?

one love

I meant let this thread rest in peace, because previous experience indicates that where this topic is concerned, there's no point in a discussion with Vicky.

In general, I'm intrigued at the way the dead are somehow sanctified. Even people's faults are often made to sound attractive.
No reason not to discuss one case rather than another, particularly if new information comes to light. Although I would perhaps have some regard for the deceased's friends & family where publicity has not been sought.