h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm not sure I want to start another thread about Islam, but I thought that Forumites might be interested in this story about a letter written by 138 Muslim scholars to the Pope and to other Christian leaders stressing the similarities between the religions and the need for a common understanding.

Personally I applaud this as a very positive first step, and I hope that it's widely reported and that the Christian churches reciprocate. The more mainstream Islam and mainstream Christianity stresses common ground, the harder it makes it for extremists on both sides. That's what I think, anyway.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2189333,00.html

So.... do we think this a positive move? How important might this be? Is this an answer to critics who (perhaps rightly) complain about never hearing the voice of moderate Islam? Or should secularists worry that any common ground found between Islam and Christianity might not be common ground that they can share?

Morning Otto,

Very interesting article. I imagine that it is a genuine approach, and that it might put the Vatican on the spot a bit. Reciprocity will need to show that the Pope is capable of putting his money where his mouth is on the issue of greater understanding between the two faiths.

IMHO I have always felt there is a common thread between ALL faiths. Usually it is the clerics who have tried to imply that 'they' held the knowledge of Gods Word. Nowhere has this been more apparent than in the crusades, and now with the radicalised Immans 'preaching ' hate and destruction.

Anything which can be done to bridge the gap between the various dogmas. and to recognise common values must be appluaded and 'pushed'. if only to undermine the extremist liars on both sides.

Novo

Extremists on both sides would be the losers. I´m not sure where this Pope is, ideologicaly. When he was the responsible for the Doctrine of the Faith, a kind of purist, dogma religious watchtower, he punished the Liberation Theology thinkers. He is also in close contact with the Church of Spain , whose hyerarchy is ´right-wing scored and many of them quite fond of OPUS DEI.
I´m afraid that that ecumenical wishes are going to be put into practice only in small parishes. In Madrid, there´s a few which do that. One of them is having serious problems with the hyerarchy. They had last weekend a mass with muslims and even atheits. They have been keeping the fast as a sharing, considerate sample of respect towards the many muslims there are in that quarter. In a quarter next to that one lived many of the authors of the 11M massacre.
Im an atheits, but I respect and admire the social work of that parish and this ecumenical including attitudes with this new Spaniards.

>>Reciprocity will need to show that the Pope is capable of putting his money where his mouth is on the issue of greater understanding between the two faiths.

Are you possibly thinking of a different pope? I'm not sure that accommodation with Islam has ever been one of his aims. And this is why the imam's letter has wrongfooted him. He's received an olive branch where all he's had to offer in the past is thorns. One of the key parts of the letter, I think, is where they say they haven't written it in expectation of recipricocity.

The Pope? How many battallians does he have?

A positive move, and a pretty bold one. The Catholic Church does not make concessions on doctrine or practice, even to other Christians. It believes that one can only come to salvation whilst in communion with the Church.

Will be interesting to see what Popey's response is.

How can you have understanding between two religions whose basic beliefs are so different i.e. Christians believe Jesus was the son of a god, Muslims say Jesus was 'just' another prophet. The whole basis of Christianity is that the son of the god they believe in died on a cross for their sins. Christians will never agree that Jesus was just a prophet as it negates their religion and Muslims will never say Jesus was the son a god because that negates their religion.

Of course there are lots of similarities between the Jewish, Christian and Muslim faiths but what that shows to me is that they are the same story but with different tweaks to them.

It will be interesting to see how the Vatican react to this. The current Pope seems to see his role as being to re-energise and re-invigorate his particular slant on Christianity by playing to core values and beliefs. As has been pointed out, the core beliefs of Christianity and Islam are different.

But...while the core beliefs are different, they can choose not to go to war over them, surely? Pragmatism over evangelism.

It may sound hard to believe, I wish it wasn´t true. Last President here, Mr. Aznar, had, and has, delirant ideas on religion and politics. A very good friend of Mr. Bush, both share that cranky idea of crusades. I would like to believe that all Bush´s politic actions are fruit of greedyness, but I´m afraid that religious fanatics also dictates his agenda. Who support economicaly the Republicans?
Religion should be talked quite seriously. The Dawkins thread is a good one to exercise rethoric ( well, not always) but I´m still waiting for a pragmatical one, the most real one, the closest to us. How religion affects politics and everything in society. Which are its consequences. Should religion be in the schools?...etc. etc.
Night folks
time to go to bed

I read recently that the Republicans are moving away from the Evangelicals. Giuliani has a pro-abortion and gay marriage stance and responded rather refreshingly when questione about it. He replied along the lines of, "Look, I can't please everybody. If you don't like what I stand for, don't vote for me". The speculation is there are more votes to be gained by supporting these issues than opposing them.

>>
The more mainstream Islam and mainstream Christianity stresses common ground, the harder it makes it for extremists on both sides.
<<

Can we include mainstream atheists in that?



I can't see any ineherent reason why Muslims and Christians can't find common ground. It's pretty normal where I live for interfaith groups to exist and work together. But then I live in a more egalitarian culture than some. Mostly I would see politics and issues of power being the stumbling blocks.


One thing that is curious is why the Guardian has focussed on the Pope so much. Apart from Rowan Williams, the other Christian leaders aren't even mentioned or even how many were sent the letter Is there a reason for this?

In fairness, he's the most significant one. He's also been speaking of 'defence of European culture'.

In relation to Muslims how is he the most important one?


>>He's also been speaking of 'defence of European culture'.<<

Is that in reference to Islamic influences, or something more general?

He's the most important one because Roman Catholicism is a very big religion, and the Pope has a greater authority over Roman Catholicism than any other Christian leader has over their flocks.

Take those two reasons together, and the Pope becomes very significant.

TRiG.

>>Is that in reference to Islamic influences, or something more general?

As in The Regensburg Address, we can assume this to be a coded opposition to Islam.

TRiG, I'm not saying the Pope isn't very important. I've just missed why the focus is almost entirely on him*. Was that the intention of the letter writers, or is it something the Guardian has done? (bearing in mind I'm writing this from the other side of the world).


*focussing almost entirely on one branch of Christianity seems counterproductive to the intention of the letter and finding common ground.

I guess the letter is also aimed at their own followers.

<<>>
The more mainstream Islam and mainstream Christianity stresses common ground, the harder it makes it for extremists on both sides.
<<

Can we include mainstream atheists in that?>>

Do you really think atheism in our countries is on the extremist level? I mean I don't think any of us are threatening violence or trying to get religion banned, we just want the right to have a good argument about faith, maybe poke fun at it a bit, and to get it out of schools.

And what about theist's rights to have a good argument about secularism, maybe poke fun at it a bit and to get it out of schools?