h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I can't believe that local (UK) press isn't covering the floods in Britain as much as they are in the *Colonies*.

So what do you think, climate change and governmental inadequacies or just a simple twist of fate?

Two years ago I saw a headline while I was in the Arctic about a previously unseen insect (a wasp). Are you growing a beard and building a 300 cubit row boat?

Are you in the UK now zoomer?


I must admit to being surprised in the thread I started asking people about the personal impact on them of climate change. Most people in the UK seemed to think that they wouldn't be affected, or that if they were the authorities would help them out. I still can't figure out if the effects in the UK are mild compared to here in NZ, or if people are still just relatively unaware of them.

My own view is that you can't pin any single weather event down to GW, but it's pretty bloody obvious that the climate is changing. It's normal now in NZ to have multiple 100 year floods every decade. It's also normal in many places here to have drought. Those two things go hand in hand (as the Australians are experiencing).

Maybe there is no drought in the UK so it's less obvious what is going on??

I also think that local human stupidity is part of the cause of flooding. In NZ it takes the form of things like building too many houses together without adequate drainage, or of continuing to farm unsustainably. But that's not the whole story by any means, mostly it's unusually high amounts of rainfall.

I'll be interested to hear an analysis of the UK floods.

No, kea. Like you I live in a far off part of the Commonwealth (in my case, the Wet Coast of Canada). Here they delight in building houses in flood plains and then asking the government for assistance when it floods every 50 years or so. Personally, I live at the base of a bloody big mountain.

When I see houses in the UK that are as old as my entire country being flooded out I wonder why people aren't making more of a fuss about climate change, rather than the rescue efforts (which seem to be generally admirable). Our country's climate(s) range from High Arctic to High Plains to Rain Forest to Desert (much like NZ as I believe) so we are a pretty good lab subject to study environmental change. There are few Canadians who believe that we aren't at the beginning of a major shift in climate change (those that don't are generally rabid talk show hosts on commercial radio).

The feeling I get from the UK is an odd one, a mix of WWII style *We'll survive it all with a stiff upper lip* and *The scientists will see us through*. Although I have been wrong in the past.....

I think those 2 attitudes exist but a 3rd is also important

"Nothing I do will make any difference so why should I bother"

Maybe it'll be just you and me in this thread, and then we'll never know

That's interesting to hear that most Canadians are on board with climate change. It's definitely on the mainstage here at the moment in lots of ways. And not just abstract "people in bangladesh will lose their country at some vague point in the future" kind of way, but "should this town in Northland be relocated because it is NOW so prone to flooding" kind of way i.e. we're already facing people losing their homes permanently.

BC, one thing that surprises me about those 3 positions is that the UK (from what I can tell) has a very strong rural tradition, and a strong alternative scene in terms of innovation and technology (and I'm not meaning high tech necessarily). I would have expected farmers and hippies to be talking about it in more meaningful terms.

Being part of a generation that firmly believes that there is a pill that will fix whatever is wrong with us and that *we've done our part, now it's your turn* I can see that. My children unfortunately seem to think that my generation has bolloxed it all up and we should fix it since we have the money (if not the time). No one seems to want to take responsibility or (gawd forbid) do anything about it. Personally I go along with the little old lady who p'd in the sea, saying *Every little bit helps*.

I'll recycle my waste, take transit and buy green. I'll invest my retirement funds in Green plans (even though the return is much lower). I'll buy a bike and plant veggies in my flower garden, use biodegradable clothes soap and put a bamboo floor in instead of Oak.

At the very least it will make me feel better.

The free newspaper that is distributed in some of the larger cities (the Metro) have been in a hyper-green mode for the last month or so (along with articles talking about the place place to holiday abroad- go figure). Some of them were rather good, some of them really felt like they were jumping on the bandwaggon.

Whether or not people will actually take notice, who knows.

I don't think the UK has much of a rural tradition left. For 200 years the majority of our population has lived in urban areas. I'd have to go back to my great-grandparents to find a member of my family who was born or worked in the country.

Hippy is usually a term of derision here. Although theres been an active green lobby here its been pretty marginal until the last few years. I think the UK is starting to take these issues more seriously but we're some way behing Canada and NZ it seems.

Vip, it would be interesting to know if anyone cares that that newspaper was probably printed on at least 50% recycled paper. Or that that is because it was economically sound rather than ecologically.

BC, I wouldn't hold Canada up as a shining example, I think Germany and the Scandanavian countries do a much better job. I think Canada (and NZ) are just very good barometers to point out the dangers and as a result tend to be a bit more active than a number of other countries. I imagine the UK will eventually react more forcefully as well as weather phenomenon become more frequent.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/impact/gulf_stream.shtml

*Recent observations have shown that since 1950 there has been a decrease of 20% in the flow of cold water in the Faeroe Bank channel between Greenland and Scotland. This is one source of cold dense water that drives the density-based component of the gulf stream. There may be an increase in flow from other cold water sources, but, if not, it could be the start of the slow down of the gulf stream.*


*The Day After Tomorrow* anyone?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/bigchilltrans.shtml

*Global warming should make the UK a more hazardous place to live. Particularly during the winter when we have not only more rain but we have more heavy precipitation, bursts of extreme rainfall. This is going to mean that for example river flooding is much more common, much more frequent and its implications will be much more serious.*

Afternoon all,

Some interesting comments so far.

As far as the UK is concerned there are two main factors to consider.

1 There a 65 illion of us living here, plus a large number from outsid and from the EU, the total here is really only a guestimate. It is a very tiny island in comparison with other countries being discussed, which means that the demand for housing ( we all want our own little plot remember - apartments only recenly acceptable! ) so we have to build on floodplains.

2 UK citizens , and the politicians who represent them , are usually blind to disaster , however well forecasted , until it actually happens.

We tend to be able to acknowledge that the climate is changing, without understanding the probable future events, whilst happily arguing the merits or otherwise of global warming, carbon footprints and CO2 emissions. It is only when our backs are actually against the wall that we get off our arses and work at the problem. I think however that we are a bit more awake now!

Novo

I think its probably a good thing if old houses get washed away. They are, after all, rather cold and energy inefficient.

Couldn't we build houses on stilts, like the Dutch?

Many of the houses being flooded are new ones. In some cases it might be better if they're washed away, but I think more often they're just left in a dreadful smelly mess after the water subsides.

I believe the meteorologists said that the rainfall has been exceptional this year & we know how difficult it is to predict UK weather much in advance. Even where there were flood defences, they proved woefully inadequate.

It'll all come down to money in the end - how cost effective would better preventative measures be? If we could foresee just how we're going to be affected - because it's too late to stop some of the effects of global warming - then we could decide on priorities.

<>

Couldn't we build houses on hills, like the Swiss? Perhaps on set-aside land that farmers are currently paid to do sod-all with. Exchange the set-aside land with fertile flood plains for agriculture.

"Couldn't we build houses on hills, like the Swiss? Perhaps on set-aside land that farmers are currently paid to do sod-all with. Exchange the set-aside land with fertile flood plains for agriculture."

Unfortunately, the average Brit isn't likely to want to have his home moved to a hillside whilst his old stomping ground becomes a "floodplane". People are going to continue building houses near rivers until either legislation or frequent flooding stops them. One flood isn't enough.

If you don't have enough safe land for the population then you need to restrict population growth (birth rates and immigration). That's a no brainer really. As bad as it is now, it's going to be so much worse in another few decades.


>>I think its probably a good thing if old houses get washed away. They are, after all, rather cold and energy inefficient.<<

Actually it makes more sense from a sustainability pov to retrofit existing houses to make them energy efficient than to knock them down and build new ones.

That is of course the elephant in the room. The population is booming and, in the UK at least, the social implications of mass uncontrolled immigration are only now starting to be recognised. The idea of reducing carbon footprints, low-energy lightbulbs and recycling to reduce carbon emissions in the UK is utterly nonsensical whilst we allow the numbers of consumers to balloon so spectacularly.

It seems mankind is a particularly rapacious stripper of earth resources for which the only logical response is population control, but there is not a cat in hell's chance of politicians addressing this. The only country that seriously attempted it was China and they got slaughtered in the West for it. Can you imagine a Human Rights lawyer drooling over a government trying to restrict people from breeding?

Let's build on hillsides and institute birth control???

Do you people live in Britain or on the moon?

This is why I tend to ignore the erudite mind exercises that this site tend to express. I can get more realistic conversations in the cafe. At least the engineers, construction workers and technicians there can see their hands in front of their faces.

Recycle, leave unwanted packing at the sales source, take transit, compost, turn off all electronic equipment unless it is used, don't burn things, donate to ecologically sound projects, eat protein that is sustainable and carbs that are local (join the 100 mile food club), support sustainable energy sources, brew your own!

FFF, should we just all head down to the local and bemoan our fate?