A Conversation for The Origins and Common Usage of British Swear-words
Crap?
WebWitch Started conversation Sep 23, 2005
I was under the impression that "crap" came from the French "crapaud", meaning toad, with the impression of squatting. Crap shoots were usually informal, with men squatting to roll dice on the floor; and obviously, defecation generally involves some measure of squatting.
Crap?
Mrs Zen Posted Sep 25, 2005
Mmmm. Interesting.
I think I prefer the one given in the entry "the word has links to the Middle English for chaff", because both are about waste products.
I would bet the farm that crap shoots are called that because of the connection with the Dutch word for money.
When looking at etymologies, the rule of Occam's razor applies and the simplest explanation is usually the best. If there is a word in a linked language which has a similar meaning, then the odds are high that you have found your etymology. Metaphor and simile ('looking like a squatting toad') are less likely than the straight line definition ('means waste material', 'means money').
However, Jimster has invited me to revise the entry to include later comments, suggestions and derivations, and I will certainly include the French Toads when I do. The image is a pleasing one, even if the story bears the hallmarks of an urban legend.
B
Crap?
WebWitch Posted Sep 28, 2005
"The image is a pleasing one, even if the story bears the hallmarks of an urban legend."
Fair enough, though I immediately thought of Occam's Razor myself, when I read about the French for toad being crapaud - simple, direct, descriptive, and in a language we borrow from almost constantly
I'm also intrigued by the idea that "berk" comes from the Romany for breast (I've seen the word in several Romany-English dictionaries on and offline), which is berk, though I have less than no idea if it's simple coincidence.
Crap?
Mrs Zen Posted Sep 28, 2005
Not that's interesting. We borrow a lot of words from Romany. Chav and divvy would fit with 'berk' as an insult. My faviourite Romany borrowing is 'lollipop' which means apple.
B
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