This is the Message Centre for RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

Native Communism

Post 81

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

Sorry about the huge double post but it gave me an error so like a dummy I hit the button again.

Native Communism

Post 82


Hey, it is nice to see some of the ideas I hold and attempt to espouse reflected back at me!

As a matter of fact, even though I am a city dweller as has been my family for a very long time, we have grown corn, beans, squash, tomatoes, avocadoes, oranges, limes, lemons, grapefruit, roses, strawberries, enough usually only for our own sustenance. We’ve used our own gray water and compost and used only things like sulfur or soapy water or symbiotic planting techniques. We’ve even cared for goats and chickens at some point though never did get to deal with larger critters. But that’s an aside.

Did my messages not state the importance of acting locally but thinking globally and creating alliances whenever possible with any others but especially with the similarly disenfranchised? Did these not also say that we belong to this rock, this very delicate and specific situation, and not the other way around? Did these not state that we all wander and move, that it is a fact of the human condition? Did these not speak clearly of the need to find ways in which to create coalitions and co-ops even in the face of ever increasing disparities; that resistance is not nor ever will it be futile, but that to survive one must continue to be in concert with the biome that gave rise to one and that one must treat that biome with the utmost respect? Did I not say that we own nothing, no matter how much we may delude ourselves about that; and that it is an ideal to strive for with all each of us is worth to sustain the land and resources in common, in a just, balances, selfless way?

I think we are agreed on that.

I have a very real world situation that, if things work out, and I as always hope they will, I could perhaps influence for the better. That is what I meant when I said give me practical, real world options on how best to advise the people on how to be able to use what they have to give each of those persons a decent life. It is a very real situation and the options currently under consideration seem like more of the same old same old. Yet, there is without much doubt the urgent need to better living conditions by doing something viable and practical. It just that whatever that something may be there is a chance to make an undisruptive choice.

So, come on, help … please.

Native Communism

Post 83

David Conway

I'm not even going to pretend to have the answers, or even suggestions that are very good. Thing is, most people can think either short term or long term, but have trouble balancing them out. Do you sacrifice the ability of future generations to use the land so you can bring in the dollars today or do you sacrifice the dollars that are pretty desperately needed today in the hopes that, at some time in the future, someone who is a reasonable human being will be in charge of the United States and existing injustices will be set right?

A golf course might bring in some tourist dollars, if it's close to somewhere that has a high population density. Then again, it might not. Plus, a golf course takes up a *lot* of land and makes it useless for anything else. Is the solution really to try to bring a lot of rich OWGs in to play on the land?

In your first post, you mentioned casinos. The internet is loaded with online casinos, including some operated on reservations. That could be a possibility. People who gamble online tend to do it in a bigger way than most people who visit physical casinos, and more often. Of course, there's the whole question of the morality of running something that could have someone donating his or her family's food budget to the casino.

Internet commerce *might* be one way to go.

All of these questions and non-answers seem to hold the common assumption that the People can't be self-sufficient and must, therefore, bring in the OWG dollars. There are certainly ways to do that for the short term, most of which would just about have to weaken the existing culture and make it look more like the dominant culture over the course of time.

I don't know that there is an undisruptive choice. Not knowing the People there now, I can't possibly know what would disrupt. There has to be something that won't either disrupt the culture or maintain the current status quo.

Given a lot more detail about the People, the land and the surrounding communities, someone here may be struck with an inspiration. I honestly don't know enough about what land might be good for what to be of any help. All I can do is ask questions.


Native Communism

Post 84


thanks for the thoughts O; I can't be more specific for the moment than what I noted in post #75.

Native Communism

Post 85

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

I'm glad you're asking, O, because it means maybe some more things ought to be clarified.

Okay, then, first understanding that I probably know more about Mormons than Mohawks. I know a little about Lakota because I've lived with one for awhile. I know quite a bit about Mexicans, the Yoemen variety at least because my cousin was one through her dad's side. I know an awful lot about most of the inhabitants of the Great Basin, Plateau and Southern Rockies regions because that's where I grew up. I also know about the people in eastern Arizona because they're family too. So that's the perspective you're going to get with a heavy dose of Analiese's opinions because that's all they are. I don't represent nobody. I ain't old enough for one thing and for another that's not how we do business.

So, let's review a few things. First, the idea was to make us dependent on the government by alientating our land and resources and that the government succeeded in doing. And we were supposed to accept that and melt into the pot just like all the other immigrants except we didn't. How annoying.

First, we ain't immigrants and second, we didn't give up no land or resources. Those things were "encroached" which is a legal doctrine of very recent origin devised to justify stealing.

It's a doctrine that isn't recognized by the OAS for example. They claim it constitutes violation of human rights, but it doesn't matter what they think because the US government doesn't do what it says or claims to represent and there's nobody around big enough or mean enough to make them.

So, quite often someone will say to me, "Hey, Analiese, deal with it. You ain't getting the land back. End of story."

To which I reply, "Yeah, but when are we getting the land back?"

Do you get it yet?

That person has no legal justification for entitlement to the land or resources so there's no justification for me letting it go. So I'll keep hammering and hammering until something breaks or somebody gets a conscience.

Now, in the meantime, we've got survive right?

That's been the problem for 140 years or more, so at least we know we can do it.

It ain't easy when they steal your cattle and horses and sell them at auction but then we work somebody's spread for awhile until we can get some brood stock and start over. It's been done before, we can do it again and again and again. Or we can like you say look at all those cool entrepreneurial opportunties presented by the tech revolution or whatever, but, and this is the biggest but of all, the land and resource issue ain't going away. And that's what we need to keep foremost in our little heads. There's no settlement, no way without the land and resources.

And the whites know it. And they fight it every way they can think of. But a few realize that there's no way we can make it on what's left. They can't, they never could. That's why we ended up with it. So to thrive, to prosper, we need what's ours, end of story.

Now that's not an abstraction, that's the way it is. Deal with it.

So, something I should mention because a lot of people still have the idea we live on annuities and some of us even still call them that, but the government has paid no annuities to anybody since the mid-20th century, which left a lot of tribal councils holding the bag. Because people came to depend on those things, even as meager and irregular as they were and so the "per-capitas" which they're more correctly called have been frequently a very serious point of contention in tribal politics.

The Weminuche, for example, tried keeping them up with whatever they could get from what the government let them have back from leases and claim settlements and so on, but they very quickly depleted any collective wealth the tribe had.

Recently they've been recovering a little with the casino, the tribal park and the oil and gas leases. Recently too, they've finally got the water that was promised over a hundred years ago, so now people have running water and indoor plumbing, many for the first time in their lives. But there's still plenty left that hasn't been supplied until the Animas-La Plata Project is finally built and then the water from that needs to be shared with the whites too, like they get two thirds and the people get what's left.

So that's one of the many challenges but it's a hopeful sign because that water means more in the long term than all the per capitas you can think of. The money's gone in a generation but water, land and other resources can be conserved to support people generation after generation and that's why it's all paramount to our continued existence on this planet. In that we are no different than any creatures. We need our territory to thrive, to prosper, to evolve.

Now, many of the whites were in our situation when they were still living in Europe, deprived, robbed, forced to survive on the meagerest of resources and you see how successful they were in finding ways to cope right? They all came to America, that's how successful they were. So what are we supposed to do again? Move to Australia? Bet that would play in Melbourne wouldn't it?

No, we need to get equitable treatment under treaty for once. Then we'll be fine.

That won't solve the whites' problems of course, but we can't solve their problems because their problems have to do with being unable to provision themselves without stealing from other people, and there's really no legal way you can do that except to pretend encroachment is legal for example.

And in the absence of law and order, they got nothing to fall back on but war and that'll destroy them eventually, if it doesn't destroy everybody else too. But we can't do nothing about that except to appeal to what "Honest Abe" called the angels of their better nature, and look how far that goes most of the time.

So that's where we're at now. Little groups of people trying like hell to endure this race of monsters who don't know what they want and won't be satisfied until they get it. What would you do?

Native Communism

Post 86


come on wing, please, get of the soap box and don't sing opera for just a few minutes. okay?!

we're agreed on the land and resources issue. we're also agreed on the need to resist. as well, we agree, on the need to keep hammering away for justice, balance, access and equity.

now, what actions can you suggest for a very real project that is moving forward. this is a chance to influence however subtly what comes out of and unto the ground and what will affect the future of these particular people for at least our lifetimes.

Native Communism

Post 87

Researcher 185550

Many thanks, RAF Wing, for your speech. It is in particular helpful to me because I am studying the development of civil rights for ethnic groups within America for A- level, primarily Africain Americans but Native Americans as well.

But I would echo ?'s call, we understand where you're coming from, what is to be done?

Native Communism

Post 88


hiya roadkill. many good wishes for an excellent performance on the 'A' levels. what colleges are you considering then?

but back on subject for a moment, do please go to the library and get Howard Zinn's excellent text, "A People's History of the United States."

I am fairly certain it will help you develop perspective.

Native Communism

Post 89

Researcher 185550

smiley - ok Many thanks.

I'm looking to do philosophy and french at Kings London.

Native Communism

Post 90


does anyone know if leonard peltier is ever gonna get a parole hearing?

Native Communism

Post 91

Researcher 185550

smiley - erm Sorry? This has escaped me....

Native Communism

Post 92


nah, just another terrorist, wouldn't ya just know it. don't believe me, go check the "USA Patriot Act."

speaking of terrorists, did you know that more than 500 of the appx. 3000 human beings who died - in the buildings - two years ago in NYC were Muslim (CNN said so: it was amongst the details provided in their extensive online reports regarding the day of that horrible event)? aren't all them Muslim types ya know, the t______ word?!?

Native Communism

Post 93

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

A project huh? Well, I don't know about any projects really. Or any "we".

I've pretty well articulated what I think people in the dominant culture need to do, not just for us but for them as well.

1) Like supporting the environmental movement which tends to mirror the concerns we have about bigness and global exploitation and stuff.

2) And to preserve the idea of locality in contrast to globalism it might not be a bad idea to try to get to know people locally.

For example, if you live New York City, do you know your local Mohawk people, some of who built the World Trade Center and are probably rehabilitating it right now? Maybe it would be good to seek them out and learn about their concerns especially the ones dealing with the international border and the pollution of their traditional homeland upstate.

If you live in the Denver area, there are several powwows during the year you could attend and start to get to know people.

One of the things we haven't discussed much is the plight of urban indians so such gatherings might be good places to start learning about that plight and what if anything you might be able to do to help out. This would of course apply to virtually any large urban area. There's going to be something going on if you look around.

3) We're already doing a project on the internet, one of many people are doing, and we've probably linked a lot of those projects one way or another so you can see what's going on relevant to the struggle.

Certainly RCO was and is a modest attempt at communicating about the issues and there many others including the Western Shoshone site that deals with the recent and current legal struggles. I think they'd be very grateful for substantial support in defraying legal expenses. That would also be true for other tribal legal initiatives or even some intertribal ones like the Peltier site.

4) But like Peltier said, we're really armies of one in most of this.

Curbing greed or acquisitiveness in our own lives, opposing Bush and other agents of imperialism, staying in touch with our so-called representatives so they know at least a few aren't blindly following what their alleged focus groups tell them are the trends or tastes or whatever, cultivating our own family ties a little more so we can have a better appreciation of what native means or should. Taking back land and resources where we can which lately might mean opposing Senator Reid's latest land grab initiative, sharing, playing fair, taking turns, telling the truth.

All these little actions aggregate over time, set examples for children that might give cause for hope, maybe not in our lifetimes but for generations to come. Opposing wars, supporting peace efforts, and the list could go on and on but I can't list it for you.

It's your thing so just do it.

Native Communism

Post 94


guess he's got no chance then

Native Communism

Post 95


okay wing, at the very least the 'we' I hopefully refered to was, at a minimum, you and me. if you don't agree, I am saddened but we will have to accept each ones perception of the other in this time. as for the powwows and getting to know people, one by one, well that is what I thought we were doing. sure virtuality is not a substitute for person to person with all senses engaged - perhaps it may yet happen - but it is some shadow of gaining knowledge from one of the other. how can you be so arrogant as to presume who belongs to the dominant culture - whatever that might be - and who does not, at the least, until each of us touches the other we have a different understanding even if we have a common definition, and even when met there may be uniqueness in our comprehension of and utilization of that and other ideas. when does one belong: when one hits a key on a pc, when one rides in an internal combustion vehicle, when one uses a wheel, when one rides a horse? please come out of the ivory tower - don't just let your hair down, come away from the pulpit of pontification, step away from the fire into the starlight, see what is happening on the ground, understand it is the Piaute who live some score or scores of miles north of Las Vegas who have initiated something, accept that there is an opportunity to provide advice here and now (yes, to be perfectly honest, it is understood: that these ideas may or may not be accepted, that may or may not be solicited, that the opportunity that exists may not ripen into being. Once again: time to act, not just to speak or think or write - each of which is valid in and of itself.

Native Communism

Post 96

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

Sorry, I missed the original Peltier post.

Peltier won't be offered parole because he's serving three consecutive life sentences. Under the provisions of the Bagley decision he was convicted by association with the murderer(s) of the FBI agents. If he admits that he knows who they are, he might get another hearing, but he won't do that because as far as he's concerned the agents were foreign invaders, terrorists, who came on the reservation uninvited and under totally false pretenses. Therefore, their demise was no different than if they had killed terrorists who invaded the United States. No one would sentence them to three consecutive life terms for doing that right?

So his personal legal issue is tied up with the issue of native sovereignty, specifically the sovereignty of the Lakota Nation, and that's why he's frequently considered a political prisoner the same as the current South African president was before he was finally released due to overwhelming international pressure.

Unfortunately, it's apparently easier to pressure the RSA than the USA so Peltier's only hope really is presidential clemency which he might have gotten from Clinton if the FBI hadn't intervened with their raucus little 500 man demonstation in front of the whitehouse, which many of us consider a patently illegal as well as offensive act since they were wearing their badges and carrying arms at the time, so it was nothing less than jackbooted coercion or intimidation on the part of a federal agency. For this reason some of us have called for the disbandment of the agency, but of course nobody listens. And they probably won't until the agency frames them for some presumed terrorist act maybe.

In the meantimes though Peltier has become a symbol of the very real need for sacrifice in the struggle and solidarity with the issue of native sovereignty. He'll probably die in prison too, but he will be no doubt as honored among the Lakota as Crazy Horse and with good cause.

In the struggle,
Analiese, Newe

Native Communism

Post 97

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

You ask for ideas then chastise me for articulating them, Kyaa? Whatever.

If I act and I do then it isn't here. This isn't a forum of action, which is why people refer to RL around here, because this isn't it.

I don't inhabit an ivory tower, I live with my family when I'm not going to school and you ain't one of them. I know virtually nothing about you other than you've probably been around the world and have some common interest in the plight of native people in the parts of it you're familiar with. That's a good thing and you've done much to publicize that. Thank you.

Now what is it you want from me again? Ideas or actions? And if actions, well, you ain't going to see nothing here, buh!!

Native Communism

Post 98


thanks for that info on petier,,i had the honour of smoking from his pipe once...his incarceration is unjust and an example of the u.s. human rights violations as well as the high number of executions

Native Communism

Post 99


it's true you know hardly anything about me and it's true this isn't the place you'll find out. to say that your family is exclusive, that is painful to bear. you, on the other hand, are and have always been a member of my family. you're right too that this is not the place where any action will occur. I had hoped that you would come forth with real hold-them-in-our-hands suggestions on how to use the land in a way that is non or minimally exploitative. I undeerstand not so; maybe, we'll meet elsewhere. meanwhile, to you be your way and to me mine...

Native Communism

Post 100

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

I know it's difficult for you, as a member of the human tribe, to understand my discriminatory tendencies as a member of much smaller tribes, however, I think we can get along anyways.

After centuries of dealing with citizens of world aka pirates aka settlers aka whatever else they've deemed advantageous to call themselves or others have called them to keep the records straight, it's not uncommon to be a little circumspect in acknowledging your relations. No one's denying your humanity by the way, but being human doesn't always mean being humane unfortunately so we take care a little more that's all. Kind of like having a personal space you know? Sort of out of arm's reach?

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