h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Bring him on! (Pickett I mean)

I'm a bit annoyed about the badges. I didn't ask for the 25-er. I had a nefarious plan to slowly creep up to a hundred some time around 2040, and not tell anybody.

And the Post Reporter one is well dodgy, because except for Christmas Competitions, I've offered one new piece to the Post in the last two years. And I'm the worst Scout on earth. And the Field Researcher one is clearly just an gross administrative error, because I've never been anywhere the h2g2 University.

Other than that, I'm really deserving of all my badges.

I had a plan of my own a long time ago to get to 99 and just stop writing solos. I thought it would be funny. It didn't work out.

The Stretcher, I think counts as a post piece. You might be deserving of that one, I'm afraid. I've not contributed to the Post, excepting a very occasional Vice's Advice, since the year I got here. So, six years ago. These badges don't come unstuck easily.

Pickett has finally charged into PR. I'm not sure he was completely ready, but I'm also not sure if he ever would be completely ready the way it was going.

I'll go get myself a beer then

I decided to comment here rather than PR because it will sound cliquish to refer to earlier conversations and drafts.

It's outstanding, and the effort you've put in shows. The way you've eventually settled on telling it works well. I got the tension, chaos and horror in spite of familiarity. A new reader will be transported.

In this form too, I think it's sure to be judged EG-fit.

The one thing I still don't get from it is your separate observation that the Charge was not so far from succeeding. It's maybe because of parallels with a story every British schoolkid knows (The Charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava), but it still comes over as a doomed and misguided enterprise. I think that possibly you should include a lit more about the state of the battle at that point. I've been reading the events as being driven by an over-confident Lee demanding a reckless push to break a fearsome defensive line, but that's probably because I'm mapping Lee onto Cardigan in the Crimea.

The draft you've linked is also very good, though. It's headers are more informative. The out-of-time Sallie is a good device, not least because it sets up a post-script ending, which the PR-piece lacks. The general reader possibly needs to be told more about what happened after the battle.

Minor criticisms, though, Jordan. You should be proud of this.

Thanks Pin.

I didn't have any reference to the Charge of the Light Brigade in this version, though I think it's a fair comparison in some regards. The overall idea was probably a bad one, but nevertheless, it could have succeeded (does that sound silly?). After the War, a lot of people said that Longstreet was to blame; that the execution of the charge was the reason the south lost the war. A lot of things went wrong, but the truth is, a solid military action has to be based on the idea that some things aren't going to go well. The Charge could only have succeeded if 99/100 things had fallen in the south's favor. Lee's presupposition was that his men's passion would overcome these obstacles.

I've added more to the "High Water Mark" point and to the last section, about what could have been, what went wrong, etc. But I like the ending how it is - the closing quote especially.

Hi Jordan

I just bumped Pickett. I maybe should have picked it this time, but there was other stuff deserving-seeming too, and it really deserves more critical attention, yeah?

As does the Brooklyn Bridge, for which apologies, being pedantic and maybe scaring others off. So the Sheffield end continues here.

Yesterday evening I stood at the north end of Kelham Island (or on the Manhattan shore, if you prefer). and looked out across the Don to Brooklyn. In our case, it's the Brooklyn Works. John Hamshere explained with his infectious Ringmaster enthusiasm where the towers will stand, straddling the weir, and how another link in the Upper Don Walk is set to be completed. There's a good story here too, not yet quite resolved, about machinations over the project.

I now have a couple of names of people who've researched the story from this side. I hope to learn not only just what Andrews Toledo supplied, but also who went from here. It's probable that there were Britons in the construction team.

The museum itself, fully restored at last after the floods of the summer of 2007, is magnificent. Better than ever: better ordered, more readable. It was a thank-you event for everyone involved in the recovery. Mine was very much a bit part, but I got an invite, and it was great to be there. So many of my dreams and visions come alive in that place.

So you're not going to shake me off on the Brooklyn Bridge very easily, I'm afraid!

Oh yeah, that's fine. For entries like that, they probably get more readers in PR than on the FP, because there's a certain sense of obligation.

The Brooklyn Bridge doesn't belong to me (though if you'd believed that, I've got some nice waterfront property on the East River on sale...) so I wouldn't expect you to stop. Your comments have been accurate, and have clarified things for me. No apology necessary for pedantry (or for scaring others off - the length did that I'd imagine).

If I had known you had an interest in the story, I would have suggested it as our long awaited collaboration. There's still time of course. Maybe a few weeks before anyone else reads it, anyways

Hey, look who's lurking?

How you doin', my friend?

Yeah, I've been doing a lot of lurking now that h2g2 is threatening to close down.

Timing never was my thing.

I've been doing very well. Have to admit that the h2g2-closure announcement was a shock to the system, though. After 8 years (last Sunday) I've grown to love this place even as I've neglected it. Not having it there to go back to just wouldn't feel right. I've never felt like I retired from h2g2. Like our founder, I've just been out to a very long lunch. When a place changes you in many profound ways, it's not something I can leave for dead. As soon as I read Nick's announcement, my first thought was something like... How much of the money which I don't have can I afford to give to keep h2g2 afloat?

Y'know, maybe they somehow manage to pull off a miracle and keep h2g2 around, we'll see the sanctuary we (you) always envisioned. Maybe.

"I'm going to go out on a limb here. I'm going to say that, if this Entry is unacceptable as it stands, then h2g2 is going to die."

h2g2 is going to die, Lake Peigneur notwithstanding, it's just a question of whether it will be reborn. No point in fighting against the guidelines and editors now. The people who run h2g2 now will almost certainly not be the people running it in a year. Those are the people we need to convince.

You're right of course.

There are a lot of people still arguing for the Same Old Guide though, even though many of the strictures that shaped the Guidelines will fall away. I think it's a familiarity thing, but only in part. It's also the site's unhealthy attractiveness to the anal, control-freak type. h2g2 is a kind of Petri dish for the worst kind of editor.

How to fight it? I've been thinking of a dust-off of my Entries that were rejected, arranging them in order of severity of Guidelines breach, then asking people to draw the line for a new h2g2.

That's too self-important though. This isn't about me. And the trouble is, it's all too personalised anyway. People argue with some of the best suggestions, even when they're pretty well no-brainers, just because they don't like the cleverness of the people who suggested them. And in many cases it's because the critics are bitter, self-pitying, inarticulate failures, and they just hate the idea that there are people here who are happier and cleverer.

Personalising it again (!), I'm not actually as arrogant as some of our fellow Researchers assume. Nor am I the advocate of some kind of elitist eugenics that some accuse me of being. There's room here for everyone - except IMO those who insist on rejecting the excellent, simply because they can't themselves achieve it or even bring themselves to aspire to it.

If it comes to it, I already belong to a small RL writing community with high standards, an appetite for novelty and challenge and an enjoyable while relaxed social scene. I don't actually need h2g2, and I really only participate these days because there are (still) a small number of people here who I really like or who make me think or in a couple of cases both. That, and as an occasional second-opinion sounding board for my stuff. Oh yeah, and sometimes through what amounts to pity, with a dash of wistfulness for what might have been. That last reason, though, is stupid and backward-looking and I'm soon going to stop myself doing it, because I don't like myself for it.

I guess that means my motivation isn't quite what's needed here. That, plus the fear of making things worse, is what's holding me back. I guess if I'm honest with myself, I wouldn't even be playing at joining the cause if I weren't still just a little bit drawn by the old Ben-crush.

So what's your motivation and magic formula. Would it help if I threw in an annoying favouring of the Steelers for tonight?

Pin

First of all, I am not interested in NFL football, but I'm forced to favor the Packers because Green Bay is farther, and I don't think I have the energy to bother with the Steelers fans scattered all around Ohio.

I'm not sure you're right that people (or as many people) are arguing for the Same Old Guide. I've been relatively pleased with the reaction so far. People have in many cases demonstrated a willingness to consider other positions. Many of the prominent writers and community members are more open-minded these days than were the big names during PROD. Icy and Tufty, for instance, are perfectly decent, reasonable people to talk to, especially next to the and . Ahem.

When the italics are gone, I believe that the community will have a big say in how the Edited Guide is to be thought of. I joined the h2g2c2 interim committee when Z asked (though I'm not sure what to do yet) so that I was sure my voice could be heard. This is not a time to lose heart or motivation. It is perhaps the only time since I've been on h2g2 when your voice has an actual chance of changing the status quo.

Lurking you for the last week or so has been a depressing adventure.

It's a well-worn sentiment that people who don't vote on election day don't have the right to complain the rest of the time. I think that's true, though that's never stopped anyone.
Consequently, I'm making a ruling right now. If you don't get more involved in the discussions about the future, I'm simply not going to be able to listen to you when whatever comes out of this process isn't to your liking.

I want to see exactly how you think this site should be run - in practical terms. Where should things go? What volunteer schemes will best reflect your vision? What should be (only) different about Peer Review? Don't tell me you can't do it. You have an uncommon gift for vision and expression. If you won't, that's fine, but I won't be interested in your criticisms in the future.

OK. For starters: F1599167?thread=8088903

The most important point to Ben (who's a rather better motivator than you are on this showing) is the one about the site being about the journey of writing rather than the finished article.

The reason I've been bad-tempered is that most of the talk about the future has degenerated into two narrow and premature topics: classification systems and website design.

The reason I've not said much is RL business.

And of course I have an idea about how the new site should be run. I'm not particularly pushing it, because I don't believe I'd ever get my way. But for you, if you really want, I'd spell it out.

But I think you know what I'd do already. It hasn't changed much down the years.

Well, seal-boy... I'm not sorry I irked you. I'm glad. I have a feeling that that post you made in Ben's thread will have a big impact on the future h2g2.

I agree with you that classification and website design aren't as fundamentally important as the things we should be talking about. I think people get tired of these old EG arguments quickly, though.

I'm working on a version of the Editorial Processes and Volunteer Schemes for h2g2c3/whoever. Here's my version A82271775. It should look very familiar. It's not perfect (it's late here) but it's a start. I see a few places you might disagree with me, but fundamentally, I think it's not bad. It will be more acceptable to others than you might think.

Who would have thought eight years ago, when a small group was designing the UnderGuide, that they were redesigning h2g2? We had no idea.

Yeah. Let's wait and see if I ever forgive you

I've seen Ben's picture, mentioned in the 'Oooooh' post under your Entry. You still got my fish e-mail address? It still works. Send me an e-mail and I'll send you the picture. It's good. It gets my vote.

If we get the right system, great. The right system is an unobtrusive system, though. We are a little too preoccupied with the admin here, IMO.

The best work either of us have done here is what we've written. Let's not forget that.

I'm sure Ben will post it to the google group as soon as she figures out how to.

I think that this part of the debate is necessarily about admin, but in the documents we eventually produce, there are several principles, such as unobtrusiveness, that should be codified. In deciding how things should work, we mustn't forget to mark down how things shouldn't work.

I'm proud of some of what I've written, but I'm more proud of my work on the UG. That gives me the sort of unambiguous pride that the totality of my writing on this site doesn't.

Only Jodes could come up with the notion of codifying unobtrusiveness.

I've decided to stick around.

I was mad at you back there. I can now see that you were right to make me think, because something new came of it. More important, I can now see that the plan isn't the thin and wide froth that's visible on the surface. There are incisive contributions being made, and they're what count. In spite of appearances, the future's being shaped by those we respect.

So I've decided to stick around, and I wanted to say thanks.

Pin