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Poetry

Post 101

a girl called Ben



How do I write poetry? - A1099343



smiley - smooch to all

smiley - run

B


Poetry

Post 102

chaiwallah



How do you write poetry? How do I write poetry? Depends what you call poetry. For me, the best "poetry" arrives unannounced, just pops up. The point then is not to "chase the pattern!" but to let it emerge as it is.

For example, back in March, when "they" were about to start bombing Iraq, I was walking home, rather depressed, from the bank where there was a TV installed with Sky News playing, giving a minute by minute account of the build-up and preparations for "shock and awe," which was due to rain down on Baghdad that night.

On my way home, I passed a beautiful magnolia tree just coming into very early blossom, and the horror of war, in comparison with the beauty of the tree suddenly jelled in my mind with flowers as a metaphor for the bombing. Here's the poem.

3 /20

It will rain flowers in Baghdad today,
The magnolias bloom at the end of the road
As the peacemongers shower camellias
On the bright red streets. Daffodils burst
Over the city in bunches, and the elite
Guard reply with snowdrops, white
In the delicate dawn, tulips blazing,
Mimosa burns yellow in a bright
Cascade over cherry and almond flares.
The first bluebells will arrive shortly,
In the upturned faces of children
And long-range anemones will spatter the skies
With premature pink. Clematis stars
Will rise to meet them.

It will rain flowers today,
As spring colour shrieks
Through the dark blossoming.

20 March '03

oooooOOOooooo

But that, for me, was a rarely political poem. Most often, it's a kind of mental itch which requires the right words to scratch it. But sometimes a line will arrive in my head, and maybe an idea of a rhyme scheme, and then the logical development of the thought and the development of the rhyme-scheme will go hand in hand.

Ben introduced me to a scheme called a "viator," where one line recurs progressively through the poem. This opened up a whole new way of writing poetry for me, very tight, because of the demands of the viator line on the rhyme-scheme. But here it helps, if there are very strong emotions to be dealt with, to have a strict rhyme scheme which effectively limits the language, keeps it simple. Indeed, the more complex the emotion, the simpler the language. As in this one about sexual abuse in my childhood ( which I only managed to write a poem about, after 12 years of journals and therapy and stuff, because of the "viator" structure, which gave me a point of entry. Does that make sense? )

I REMEMBER HOW YOU WAITED

I remember how you waited until dark
And then came softly softly up the stairs
Being the boogey man, for you a game,
For me a grim negation of my prayers.

Does it surprise you, after all these years
That I remember how you waited until dark
To throw my door back with a savage growl,
More frightening than that bulldog in the park?

Do you remember too, how I looked up
To your prowess, in awe of all your skill?
As I remember how you waited until dark,
The apprehension of it haunts me still.

You never tired of taunting, teasing me
The truth is as unpleasant as it's stark -
Your games embraced your sexuality.
I remember how you waited until dark.

It wasn't long, once Mary'd gone away,
Before you tried to use me as a mate.
I remember how you waited until dark
To show me things I quickly learned to hate,

Things that to this day I just can't forget.
As I remember how you waited until dark,
The heat of you, the smell, the taste, the sight,
Have left an ineradicable mark.

I remember how you waited until dark
To make me hold you, stroke you, "do the trick"
In bed, or bath, you'd tell me, "Don't stop now, don't stop!"
In my small fist you felt so huge and thick.

You came. It stuck to me. Confusion, shame,
When I remember how you waited until dark
And said we'd play your special secret game.
You, whom I adored, said, "It's just a lark."

In time the fear receded, not the guilt,
And not the sense of something out of key.
As I remember how you waited until dark
Before you'd come and play your game with me.

But over all these years, you've never said a word -
No hint of grief, remorse, regret - not one remark
To indicate the part you played. You left me scarred.
So I remember how you waited until dark.

oooooOOOooooo


Also, as a general rule, the more abstract the thought, the more concrete the image or metaphor needs to be.

It's such a huge topic. But there's a few thoughts. Hope they're helpful.



Poetry

Post 103

Potholer

Ben, I really do like what I've seen so far of what you wrote off-site. Even though I am in a bit of a sensitive post-summer state at present, which is probably having *some* effect, I have been unusually moved to the point where I think I'll have to take it in small chunks to avoid emotional overload.

I've just started writing myself in the last week or so, but only descriptive/humourous stuff, rather than anything soul-baring or otherwise personal. I'd started playing with a couple of verses and got quite carried away (now ~60 verses), but I think long sagas may well be the easiest kind of thing to write because the chronology is already a given and space is effectively unlimited, even if rhyme re-use gets to be a bit of a problem.

Being somewhat written out for now, but still in an analytical mood, I think I'll really enjoy reading your poems, though I'm not sure how useful my comments might be.


Poetry

Post 104

clzoomer- a bit woobly

For me that question is like asking *How do I fall in love?*. Anything you write is good, if it is good to you, don'tcha think? smiley - smiley


Poetry

Post 105

a girl called Ben

Hi Potholer. I am sorry to hear that you are feeling fragile. Is it any consolation that the reason most of my poems are so bloody gloomy is that I only feel moved to write by misery. I have good times, but I just enjoy them for what they are.

"Anything you write is good, if it is good to yo"

Um. Not sure about that CL. It depends on whether poetry (or painting, or fiction, or whatevre) is therapy and catharsis, (in which case I would agree), or an attemtp at communication or Art, (with a capital *A*) in which case quality most definitely counts.

B
*gonna get round to the backlog - honest*


Poetry

Post 106

clzoomer- a bit woobly

Point well taken, but I long ago gave up trying to fit some mold like that. As I told you a long time ago, *I yam wot I yam*.

smiley - cheers


Poetry

Post 107

a girl called Ben

Which mold?

When I write poetry I enjoy the mix of challenges: the technical ones of scansion and rhyme, and the expressive ones of accurate description of complex and multi-layered events.

But - yes - poetry as therapy is vitally important. It does that for me too.

I guess I have this specific challenge with the two versions of the poem about Epping Forest: do I keep it the way that records my reactions, or do I change it so that it communicates them more effecrtively?

B


Poetry

Post 108

clzoomer- a bit woobly

No particular mold, I just have a dislike of being told what is *correct* or not. I take your point about the power of good writing. I am sure that metre and rhyme are a strong frame to build on, but I just like Howl better than *Let me compare thee to a Summer's day* and Dub better than Rap.

Have you thought about combining something like stream-of-consciousness with something like metred verse, perhaps alternately? The mind doesn't think one way only, why should your poem?


Poetry

Post 109

Potholer

Ben, I'm not fragile-depressed, just abnormally sensitive, maybe even empathetic (which isn't at all common for me).
There's probably an element of post-expedition blues, adjusting back to real life after an intense time in Slovenia, plus the hassle of no real progress on the job front, but I'm feeling fine in myself in general.
Thanks for your words anyway.

I really do understand the motivation from melancholy thing, though I doubt anything I'd write in that kind of mood would be something I'd be brave enough to publish, or that other people would want to read.
Apart from love poems with a target audience of one, I'm not sure I'd get the motivation to write when actively happy either.

My own recent stuff was basically historical, mainly intended for the handful of people who are the named or unnamed characters, and for adding variety to an expedition report. Though also posted on h2g2 as a convenient way for mates to see the work in progress (copyright not really being a problem for something of that nature), I don't know what anyone lacking inside knowledge would make of the it. It'd be intriguing to find out, but probably quite hard on the reader.


Poetry

Post 110

a girl called Ben

They are here on hootoo, Potholer? Linketty link, please! Interested people want to see them!

CL: "Have you thought about combining something like stream-of-consciousness with something like metred verse, perhaps alternately? The mind doesn't think one way only, why should your poem?"

WOW. Interesting stuff. I have completely recast stream-of-concsiousness stuff into seriously structured verses. I have never tried a mix. I *do* feel that if it doesn't work when spoken out loud, then it doesn't work at all, and I am not sure whether or not something could work in mixed-media, like that. But you have set an incredibly formidable technical challenge, and one that I am tempted to attempt.

The nearest that I can think of is "Naming of Parts": http://www.solearabiantree.net/namingofparts/namingofparts.html though the structure is consistant throughout, while the poem glides rather ambiguously between two voices.

"something like stream-of-consciousness with something like metred verse" - CL - you have no idea how aposite that suggestion is.

*dissappears into a wallowing pit of self-indulgent emotion for an unspecified amount of time*

B


Poetry

Post 111

clzoomer- a bit woobly

smiley - blush

Just an idea! Don't go by any suggestions from this old head.

Two voices seem a good idea, but I was thinking you meant the descriptive stream interrupted by burst of song/poetry inspired by the sight. I dunno. smiley - laugh


Poetry

Post 112

Potholer

Not sure how many interested people there are, and I do feel a bit self-conscious posting in a thread about your stuff, but what I've done so far is here
A1153603
Don't say you weren't warned (and apologies for the few mis-scanning lines and repeated (albeit well-separated) rhymes.

I think I really should read more about the various rules of poetry - I basically started off with an 8-line 8-syllable verse, (folowing on from a short caving based rip-off of Jerusalem I wrote a few years back), but there seemed to be some patterns of words that worked and some that didn't, and I'm not sure precisely why, so I just did things by ear.


Poetry

Post 113

Mal

There we go. Now I've read everyone's poetry who has posted on this thread, and I must say, I'm impressed.
Potholer - look up sestinas, they're my favourite kind of structured poem.


Quick hug to a friend

Post 114

Boots

Hi Ben
No email arrived...not a surprise nothing seems to be working properly this week. Hope you had a great end to wednesday. Moving targets are not nice. Thinking of you lots...you are very special and deserve the best.
Off to bed now but catch up soon.
take care
boots


Quick hug to a friend

Post 115

a girl called Ben

Was I supposed to send an email?

*looks around guiltily*

Guess I better had, then.

smiley - run

B


Quick hug to a friend

Post 116

Boots

No you silly cow smiley - laugh you told me you had Derr!
take care
boots (who meant to set up a new thread and hit that technology block...again!)


Quick hug to a friend

Post 117

clzoomer- a bit woobly

bovine uncomfort able

no need no heed no lead

late night buy a box of this or no have a drink

OK

Noooooo


Quick hug to a friend

Post 118

a girl called Ben

Just to let y'all know I will be offline for a while. Not sure how long. My email addies are in my U-Space.

The nicest possible thing when I get back would be to find that this thread was a thriving little poetry workshop, hundreds of posts long, with all the paranoid carping and griping and gentle p**s-taking that poets do so well. smiley - smooch to Pin. smiley - smooch to Chai. smiley - smooch to everyone in the thread.

smiley - love to all

B


Quick hug to a friend

Post 119

J

Oh. Okay

Let's thrive! smiley - bigeyes


Quick hug to a friend

Post 120

chaiwallah

Here are two for the price of one, fresh out of the oven.
Cheers,

Chaiwallah


Wind and Waves

I am less real than the sea,
walking here, and watching waves,
their rise and fall is solider than memory,
the salt smell more present than identity.
What will remain when my tide ebbs?
Some ripples on a sandy beach
to signature an energy?
Empty shells of dead crabs?
How soon the wind-shaped feelings, swept
underneath my feet fade, easily
to drift away. Dried seaweed fronds
blown here, old growth, sharpened crisply,
turn brittle as the feared termination.
Then the tide returns new shapes, new life.
Will I become a whisper of creation?

______________________________________________

M & Ms

The emanem's packet glows
brightly blue this morning,
bright as the jasmine flowers
at Shri Ganesh's feet.

Same old thoughts arising,
same old stories singing
effortlessly. Same old mystery,
unfolding wonderfully,
like a jasmine flower.

The jasmine leaves shimmer
in utter greenness,
bright as an emanem packet.


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