This is the Message Centre for Primeval Mudd (formerly Roymondo)

Comments on the 30 character palava.

Post 1

Vip

Hum.

If people feel like they are being ignored or forced to conform with something, they are likely to reject it out of hand (just read some of the comments that have been on previous threads on such topics).

Nicknames aren't important to me (hey, three characters does me) but if the BBC put their foot down and force us to conform, you end up with an angry, unresponsive community.

The BBC bought h2g2 because the community cared about the site and helped to run it. If they alienate the older members of the site who have got attached to the things, then the site may fall over as they refuse to cooperate.

Personally, people who care about their long names can go hang. Cute little nicknames and Keeper titles and so an have nothing to do with the Guide and they have nothing to do with how well h2g2 integrates with the www or the bbc. But I can see why the BBC tries to placate them.

smiley - fairy


Comments on the 30 character palava.

Post 2

Primeval Mudd (formerly Roymondo)

Gosh.

I absolutely agree and have little to add!

My concern is that by placating the older members the BBC run the risk of alienating newbies. There are forum standards* (such as quoting, text formatting and such like) that aren't available here.

H2G2 was my introduction to the internet so I, grudgingly, accept its idiosyncrasies. If I were a net savvie newbie I doubt I'd stick around.


Comments on the 30 character palava.

Post 3

Vip

Yeah, I don't know where the line lies between looking after the existing community and change. smiley - sadface

This site is already newbie-unfriendly enough as it is, we get few new users sticking around and it feels like it's the same people hanging around. There's the odd new one who comes, 'gets it', and stays, but even they would probably say that they stayed despite the technical shortcomings.

I don't know how to fix it. I've been keeping a journal with little ideas that I've had, but it's just too big a problem.

Part of me wants to create a little group that can go to the Eds and say 'change away - we'll be here for you' but that's a very old-style h2g2 way to go about it, forming little societies and so on. smiley - winkeyeIt also risks a schism between those who want to keep it just as it is. smiley - grr


Magic wand, anyone?

smiley - fairy


Comments on the 30 character palava.

Post 4

Terran

*De-lurks by transforming from a pot plant standing on the window, in to something vaguely resembling human... and with all the clicks and groans required...*

Many apologies for dropping in uninvited, I was curious where the line of conversation was going. And saw this thread.

"Part of me wants to create a little group that can go to the Eds and say 'change away - we'll be here for you' but that's a very old-style h2g2 way to go about it, forming little societies and so on."

I'm fascinated by this, because essentially, I'm looking forward to see what is to be changed. And I guess as a sort of oldie (been here since 2002 - and you were my Ace Vip (memory like a bloody elephant at times me - other times its like a fish!) smiley - winkeye), I'm just wondering what you mean by very old-style h2g2 - is that to suggest that we used to be a lot more open to change?

Please tell me to sod off as and when required, but just found this train of thought intruiging! smiley - tea?


Comments on the 30 character palava.

Post 5

Vip

When the site was formed, there was a whole host of change as it got itself established. When TDV went down and the BBC bought h2g2, the changes were drastic and they lost a lot of members. Those who survived Rupert had to create a 'new' h2g2 from what they had.

By the time I joined, the site had started to settle down. Since then (Dec 2001) there has been practically no changes required of us. In the early days change was thrust upon h2g2, so people had to lump it or like it, these days we somply don't have to.

Now we're essentially being given the opportunity to change, but with some very understanding Italics and other people like Nick Reynolds. The changes so far have been small, but the upcry has been, quite frankly, embarrassing over such small things.

My main concern is that I think h2g2 is dying. It's certainly not thriving, anyway. The model we've got obviously isn't working so we need to change it - and if we don't change, we'll *continue to die*.

Unfortunately I don't have many anwswers (I started a journal to try and come up with ideas but I ran dry very quickly). smiley - sadface

smiley - fairy


Comments on the 30 character palava.

Post 6

Terran

This might tie in to something I'm trying to do for the post (albeit I'm supposed to be doing work at the moment, so this week it wont be happening). For a while I've been trying to figure out where the h2g2 post community now largely resides - and have found a few places where there are a lot of posters - so intend to ultimately write an entry for the post on it. Now on the surface this might not seem that connected, but I wonder (and this is a bit of a leap in my ponderings) whether theres anything we can do with this, to connect the communities and perhaps make things seem clearer in relation to the big changes ahead.

The biggest thing we have to do is open up these pockets of community again, so that they start communicating with each other.

I remember I became quite disenchanted with h2g2 for a while, because it seemed to be increasingly full of people who were quite happy to watch the site die, as long as they had their miniscule corner of the web to moan. I was drawn back in to the fold by the h2g2AViators and the post, which I think are the two biggest aces h2g2 has up its sleeve - which sounds daft considering we have the edited guide, though I sometimes wonder how much the edited guide actually aids h2g2 in the way its structured. Sorry that's probably wrong, as I do like the Edited Guide, but I'm not sure how many new people it actually attracts. To create great guide entrys we need a great and more active community (and a structure that is fluid enough not to scare people aware with over the top criticism, which to be fair is rare) - and I think the post and the AViators have some great tools in their arsenal to do that.

The problem is I think a lot of the more sensible "oldies" (I maybe an oldie-ish but I'm not that sensible smiley - tongueout) are tired of trying to overcome rediculously complicated people in arguments (because I know some people you actually can't talk to because they're either master debaters (and it is possible to argue successfully from a position of being very wrong - my sister is in law), or just won't budge on their position for anyone).

I think we need to club together essentially. I'm struggling to think any more deeply about it, because I've got 101 other things to do at the moment. But I'd love to hear more about this smiley - ok


Comments on the 30 character palava.

Post 7

Vip

I remember you popping into the Atelier, actually. See, I do pay attention! It's an interesting experiment, and I'd be interested to know where people are these days. I can't find them myself, so what chance would a newbie have?

Bah, Ask arguments. We've all had the same arguments over and over again and yet people still engage. It's pointless. It will always go on, but we need to make sure that people have other places they can escape to and not feel like the entire Community can be upset by one troll.

I struggle to place how much 'Community' h2g2 should have. On the one hand, I loved being part of the Cult of Dentonites and the Queen fan club and helping out in your kitchens, Terran, but I did nothing for the EG, Post or anything constructive.
Much as I hate to admit it, we don't need those sorts of members; we need members that want to write for site - people can join any of thousands of websites just to chat but h2g2 shouldn't be *only* for that. Defining exactly where the line should be... no idea.

What's the point of the Guide? To create written articles on Life, the Universe, and Everything. There can be different places that the articles go - the EG, the UG, The Post or The AViators (not so sure about them but I know they're a bunch of smiley - cool, enthusiastic people with the Guide at their heart so I trust them).

What's the point of the Community? To provide a group of friends who support each other, review each others' work and make writing an enjoyable experience.

I think that's the most coherent I've ever been on the subject...

smiley - fairy




P.S. I remember my ACE too - knitbunny. She Elvised not long after I joined. smiley - sadface It's nice to be remembered. smiley - smiley


Comments on the 30 character palava.

Post 8

Vip

You know, it's people like Rev. Jack Russell that make me want to leave. I was half way through the moderation process before I realised that all he'd do was post again, complaining that he'd got yikesed.

Such bullet-headed stupidity about something that, if he'd bothered to look into, is painless. Jimcracker I can understand - he's essentially going to be booted off. But Rev Jack... smiley - grr

Sorry, I just wanted to post to people who wouldn't bite my head off for doing so.

smiley - fairy


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