A Conversation for Community Art Requests

A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 41

Tango

Simulpost. Thankyou for the support SEF.

I just realised, i never commented on spooks sugestion of a community run h2g2. I think it is a great idea, but nothing can be run successfully purely by commitee, therefor a few editors would be required for extraordinary circumstances, but the every day things could be run by the community much better then they have been run by editors.

Tango


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 42

Tango

Lot's of simulposts. Let's just be thankful we aren't using the group persona. smiley - winkeye

I think spooks point is pretty much the same as mine, so now you have it from two people, not that i expect it will sink in any more.

Tango


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 43

spook

Tango - i was thinking of the DNA editors sorting out the technical sie as they do, and one editor in charge of just the edited guide. the community do the rest.

spook


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 44

Tango

The technical people obviously have to stay, at least until Jim can pursuade the bbc to open source DNA. I think one editor is probably enough. Every group needs a leader, or it takes too long for decisions to be made. Some decisions are ok taking a few days to make, others need to be made on the spot. It is those that need to be made on the spot that must be made by an editor.

Tango


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 45

Masvaleix


>>> So the BBC gave you a title and that makes you the best person to make these decisions? I don't think so somehow.

They didn't decide - they gave that title after taking into consideration Mina's experience - both on h2g2 and off. The same applies to everyone who has worked on this site over the years. You have little or no idea of the experience we all have. To presume otherwise just shows your ignorance.

>>> It seems you have decided to leave h2g2, and for that I am grateful. Without your incompetence we might actually be able to get a lot closer to Douglas's dream.

I'm not here to fight Mina's corner for her, but I can tell you here and now that if it wasn't for Mina, you lot would be without a CA scheme to moan about. If it wasn;t for Mina fighting your corner you might not have that 'freedom' you all spout on so much about.

You are so intent on telling us what we should do and how we should do it. Well it's about time you realised what we do to keep this site alive. Take stock of what you have, make suggestions to improve it, but learn when 'no, not now' means just that.

Stamping your feet and sulking may get you a lollipop at home but it will get you nowhere in the big wide world.


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 46

spook

the CA scheme isn't freedom. if it allowed us freedom to create community images ourselves then the two images werekitty made for two groups i run would have been blobbed by now. we didn't ask for a CA scheme, but for the ability to create community art.

spook


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 47

Masvaleix



>>> for the ability to create community art.


Which needs to be managed by the people who have the tools. That's the italics. They need a manageable system, which the CA scheme is. The same applies for the Scouts in PR. If we allowed every Researcher to pick entries willy-nilly, nothing would get to the front page. Systems need to scaleable


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 48

Mina

It is the policy of the h2g2 Editors not to respond to personal abuse.


Removed

Post 49

Tango

This post has been removed.


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 50

Tango

You mean it is the policy of the BBC not to listen when people point out that they are less than perfect?

If i were telling lies about you, that would be abuse. I am not lying. I am telling verifiable truth.

I have no problem with you not responding, all it means is that you are not defending yourself, so i win the arguement by default. In not responding you are accepting that what i say is true. Thank you for finally accepting the truth.

Tango


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 51

spook

i'm not disagreeing for the need for a scheme, simply that the scheme that is implemented is a flawed one as it only gives some people the ability to do community art, while other members of groups are more suitable to do a logo reflecting the group.

spook


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 52

Natalie

Hello all,

Thank you for your feedback.

For the reasons given quite clearly - though it's technically possible, we do not have the resources - we will not be uploading this piece of art, as we cannot set precedents of this type.

The resource issue is rather pressing, so - since the answer to this query was given some time ago - please accept this as the final in-house word on the matter.

Natalie


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 53

Mr Ixolite

Once again, SEF, you have decended to the depths of personal attacks.

>>>"Many of the CA graphics do not fit the guidelines. Lentilla's files were frequently not named properly. Jimster's were not in the correct format a couple of times and neither his nor DoctorMO's tended to be visible in the place being checked regularly which led to their faulty images being blobbed (still unchecked by the person responsible for that) and going onto the front page."

And these are all things that can very easily be changed. Unlike, for example, being able to improve the artistic merit of a graphic.


>>>"It is wrong to imply that other people couldn't meet the standards just as easily if not better than current CAs."

I don't think anyone made that implication, SEF. All that has been said is that these things can be checked easily.


spook:
>>>"now, this is just the first step of my master plan. perhaps we could form a commity of how to take things off the editors hands."

Shall I tell you how you can take things off the editors hands? BY STARTING YOUR OWN F*****G WEBSITE!!!


SEF again:
>>>"It proved to be the case that a whole pack of people did indeed lay into him, failed to read what he said and deliberately misrepresented his position."

And what, precisely, are you doing now? I think it's time for Miss Pot to meet Miss Kettle...


Tango:
>>>"so i win the arguement by default. In not responding you are accepting that what i say is true."

No, you seem to have missed the point here. In not responding, Mina is refusing to be drawn down to your lowly level, and also not giving you the pleasure of being able to further inflame the situation.


spook:
>>>"it only gives some people the ability to do community art"

Wrong, wrong, wrong... *Anyone* can apply to be a CA. Yes, even you spook. As with all the other volounteer schemes, it will take time for applications to be processed, but the scheme is open to all.


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 54

J

SEF, spook and Tango - does abusing the editors ever work in situations like this? As for the Tango/Atled debate, this isn't the thread for this, is it?

Spook - it ain't gonna happen right now. Being stubborn and getting the issue distracted won't help. Anyway - is one blob worth this much debate?

Awaiting your answer, though I know what it is already...

smiley - blacksheep


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 55

Masvaleix


The choice is simple:

* You can work within the system and help modify it along the way so that everybody (Researchers and italics alike) can help produce manageable, quality content.

* You can try and subvert a system that doesn't need subverting, dig your heels in and bury your head in the sand.

Hmmmm that's a really tough *choice*

At the end of the day you should be trying to do the best for your project, moving it forward. By crossing your arms and screaming until you're sick and the italics are deaf does neither you nor the SOG any favours. Get a graphic through the system, make suggestions for its appearance and help the SOG grow.

Don't just sit there, sweating over the keyboard because you can't get your way.


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 56

Tango

"And these are all things that can very easily be changed. Unlike, for example, being able to improve the artistic merit of a graphic."

They *can* be easilly changed. The problem is, they were not.

"Shall I tell you how you can take things off the editors hands? BY STARTING YOUR OWN F*****G WEBSITE!!!"

Oh, you're big, aren't you. You can use 4 letter words. If spook were to make his own site, it would be wasting all Jim's hard work. Jim has done a good job making the software, it is just the editors of the site that let it down.

"No, you seem to have missed the point here. In not responding, Mina is refusing to be drawn down to your lowly level, and also not giving you the pleasure of being able to further inflame the situation."

You are labouring under the commonly held delusion that arguement is a "lowly" thing. It is not. An intelligent arguement, is one of the highest forms of intelliegence possible. I do not get plesure out of inflaming situations. I get plesure out of making things better. By refusing to defend herself, mina is accepting defeat, and proving that she does not have the intelligence required to counter the points i make.

"SEF, spook and Tango - does abusing the editors ever work in situations like this? As for the Tango/Atled debate, this isn't the thread for this, is it?"

We are not abusing anyone. We are telling the truth. Get a dictionary.

Tango


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 57

Tango

"The choice is simple:"

It is indeed, so why don't you make the right one?

"* You can work within the system and help modify it along the way so that everybody (Researchers and italics alike) can help produce manageable, quality content."

Yep, that's what we are trying to do here. If only you had the intelligence to notice...

"* You can try and subvert a system that doesn't need subverting, dig your heels in and bury your head in the sand."

Burying your head in the sand? Isn't that what mina is doing by refusing to comment?

"Hmmmm that's a really tough *choice*"

No it isn't, so you can make the decision quite easily and listen to us.

At the end of the day you should be trying to do the best for your project, moving it forward."

Indeed. That is what we are trying to do.

"By crossing your arms and screaming until you're sick and the italics are deaf does neither you nor the SOG any favours."

You are the ones "crossing your arms". We are trying to get you to understand simple points. If the italics would take them onboard it would do the whole of h2g2 a favour.

"Get a graphic through the system, make suggestions for its appearance and help the SOG grow."

So we wait ages, get a sub-standard picture and live with it, or we continue to try and get you to see sense with the aim of immeadiately getting a good quality picture? I know which one i choose.

"Don't just sit there, sweating over the keyboard because you can't get your way."

So basically, you are saying that you are in charge, and you have made your decision and you are not changing it come hell or high water? That is a very immature attitude to take.

Tango


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 58

J

It doesn't matter what you think you're doing. If the italics are being told that they're stupid or liars, that's an insult. And they haven't done anything to deserve it (prove me wrong - give me some links and examples) so that's abuse

And Mina does have the intelligence to do this. But the editors just can't get into a defamatory argument. Not an intelligent argument... it's like a bunch of children!

You're smart enough to know that whining about this won't help the situation Tango.

smiley - blacksheep


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 59

SEF

"Once again, SEF, you have decended to the depths of personal attacks."

Wrong. You are yet another person on this site misrepresenting what other people have said in order to be nasty because you don't actually have a valid point of your own to make.

I gave counter-examples to Mina's faulty points. I didn't say anything personal about the people at all. Merely about the evident unreliability of the existing CA process. Those were things which *could* easily have been changed by someone watchful, competent and permitted to fix them but this was *not* done - which is precisely the point I was making but you so clearly failed to comprehend. Mina never said that WereKitty's graphic lacked artistic merit. You seem to be making that implication now however, as has the staff and whole CA system by preventing people from submitting their own graphics.

"I don't think anyone made that implication, SEF."

You wouldn't though since you want to pretend it wasn't having just done so yourself as well.

"And what, precisely, are you doing now?"

Being the person most qualified to comment on the factual CA issues - not misrepresenting people as you imply and as you are doing yourself. I have not commented on the validity of S.O.G.'s request for a graphic since I don't know enough about how active the group is in comparison to other ones. You are another one failing to read and comprehend people's posts properly and misrepresenting people's positions and what they said, being apparently ignorant of the facts and yet commenting anyway and dishonestly quoting out of context to imply they addressed thing other than those they did. You are a fairly typical example of the sub-section of h2g2 users who choose to behave in that despicable fashion.


A962769 - The Spaced Out Guide Menu System

Post 60

J

Thought this thread would breed simulposting smiley - erm


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