A Conversation for Peer Review

A88022315 - Habsburg Jaw: a cautionary tale about royal inbreeding in Spain

Post 1

paulh, making lemonade from the lemons that life has given me

Entry: Habsburg Jaw: a cautionary tale about royal inbreeding in Spain - A88022315
Author: paulh, making lemonade from the lemons that life has given me - U176638

I hope that this entry will be a good addition to the Edited Guide. I've seen references to haemophilia and porphyry in the Guide, but not Habsburg Jaw. Charles II and the other Spanish Habsburgs are covered in a guide entry, but the inbred disorders that doomed him and his line deserved a closer look, in my opinion.


A88022315 - Habsburg Jaw: a cautionary tale about royal inbreeding in Spain

Post 2

paulh, making lemonade from the lemons that life has given me

Here's a link that explains why inbreeding allows harmful recessive genes to express themselves:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664480/#:~:text=The%20last%20king%20of%20the,born%20from%20his%20two%20marriages.

I don't know how much detail is too much detail. I want to keep the entry accessible.


A88022315 - Habsburg Jaw: a cautionary tale about royal inbreeding in Spain

Post 3

paulh, making lemonade from the lemons that life has given me

More food for thought:

fs" the progeny of closely consanguineous couples has an increased incidence of disorders and, in general, detrimental health effects caused by the expression of rare, deleterious recessive alleles inherited from common ancestors."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664480/#:~:text=The%20last%20king%20of%20the,born%20from%20his%20two%20marriages.

"Charles likely suffered from two genetic disorders: combined pituitary hormone deficiency and distal renal tubular acidosis. The first, caused by a mutation in the gene necessary to produce hormones in the pituitary gland, was responsible for Charles's short stature, infertility, and impotence. It could also cause weak muscles and digestive problems.

The second, caused by a gene mutation, makes it difficult for the kidneys to get rid of acid through the urine. It can lead to bloody urine, weak muscles, and a large head relative to the size of the body"
https://www.ranker.com/list/life-of-charles-ii-of-spain/genevieve-carlton

But the second entry is speculative. We don't know that he necessarily had those disorders ...


A88022315 - Habsburg Jaw: a cautionary tale about royal inbreeding in Spain

Post 4

SashaQ - happysad

Yes, thank you for taking a closer look into this subject - good to know what research has been done.

I wonder if you could add a bit more just to create a bridge between the Spanish Hapsburgs Entry A3152765 and this one - "His family seemed more concerned about keeping him alive than educating him" but he did actually become king and make decisions in his own right, is that correct?


A88022315 - Habsburg Jaw: a cautionary tale about royal inbreeding in Spain

Post 5

paulh, making lemonade from the lemons that life has given me

It was said of him that certain decisions were made by him. I can't deny that. I would need to take a closer look. His handlers seem to have wanted to keep him alive, but unless I'm misreading things, there was a support system that was doing the heavy lifting as far as governing was concerned.

I will take a closer look, though.


A88022315 - Habsburg Jaw: a cautionary tale about royal inbreeding in Spain

Post 6

paulh, making lemonade from the lemons that life has given me

Here's the resuilt of his autopsy, from a wikipedia articles: "The autopsy records his body 'did not contain a single drop of blood; his heart was the size of a peppercorn; his lungs corroded; his intestines rotten and gangrenous; he had a single testicle, black as coal, and his head was full of water'."

Higher-level reasoning would be hard if you have water instead of brain cells.


A88022315 - Habsburg Jaw: a cautionary tale about royal inbreeding in Spain

Post 7

paulh, making lemonade from the lemons that life has given me

I've tweaked the entry regarding other people reigning in his stead, and also mentioned the results of his autopsy.


A88022315 - Habsburg Jaw: a cautionary tale about royal inbreeding in Spain

Post 8

SashaQ - happysad

Thank you - this is looking better.

" the most inbred individual of all" - you mention his father was the uncle of his mother, but I presume his family tree was more complicated than that - can you say a bit more about his grandparents?


A88022315 - Habsburg Jaw: a cautionary tale about royal inbreeding in Spain

Post 9

paulh, making lemonade from the lemons that life has given me

Father Philip III of Spain
Mother Margaret of Austria

Philip III's parents:
Father Philip II of Spain
Mother Anna of Austria

Margaret of Austria's parents:
Father Charles II of Austria
Mother Maria Anna of Bavaria

I'm sorry, this is getting too complicated for me. I've been away from it for a long time, and I've kind of lost the thread.

here's a video on youtube that has a family tree -- and what a family tree it was!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lKnQPNujxQ


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