h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

There was a far side cartoon a while back, showing Col. Sanders of Kentucky Fried Chicken fame showing up at the pearly gates. And St. Peter was a chicken. Oops.

So Andy, is there a special reason why you are getting fed up wth the Creationists?

Oh how to say it without sounding too evil and bigoted?

I'm afraid it makes me question their intellegence and/or sophistication. The idea of creationism, to me, is so obviously 'out there' that it seems absurd that anyone with an IQ above that of bread would consider it valid. The first geological test that proved a rock was older than 6,000 years effectively scuppered creationism, but there are these spiritual Canute's desperately trying to hold back an ever-expanding tide of knowledge with faith. It's a childish idea.

I also have a similar problem with smokers.

Okay, but just for the sake of argument, who the heck ever said that a day for God had to be the same 24 hour day we know? Why couldn't God create the world in 7 REALLY LOOOOONG days over the course of what we would call billions of years?

Just so you know...playing devil's advocate is my sideline!

"Okay, but just for the sake of argument, who the heck ever said that a day for God had to be the same 24 hour day we know?"

This is exactly what the fundamentalist, literalist christians *are* saying, strangely enough. They don't do any interpreting, they don't see any symbolism. It has to be seen as exactly how it is written in the scripture.



Ste

In the interest of moderation, maybe I should proffer the possibility that maybe it's not a lack of intelligence, but more a lack of decent information (or an excess of misinformation) that is the real problem. (Maybe that's what was meant by a lack of sophistication?)

For a very long time, many people of intelligence did beleive in creation, because that's all they were taught. Even today, many people are exposed to lots of arguments supporting creationism, and are either not exposed to, or have a religious resistance to, good arguments about evolution, or are misled by seriously inaccurate statements by creationists about evolutionary theory.

There's a difference between blaming an individual person for beleiving a theory they've been taught, and blaming the people who formulate those theories.

But that's what I am talking about. I have a friend who lives with her boyfriend, and doesn't intend to get married anytime soon, drinks, swears like a sailor, and loves to wear revealing clothes. She teaches 6th grade, and endorses the cirriculum because it isn't superstitious.

However, she really believes that God put dinosaur bones in the earth to fool the wicked.

So where does that leave us? Is she a hypocrite, or just confused?

"Wicked" as in the UK Garage stylee sense of the word?

All those palaentologists, sheesh, have you EVER met a nice one?



Let's hope and put it down to confused then eh?

Ste

The old Earth creationists go on about the day being a billion years and such. Doesn't solve much though.

The creationists I've talked to over the internet, and a few I've met in real life have in general lived up to the stereotype. But I have a friend who goes to Princeton and is quite brainy. Yet still believe in God and the whole 7 days thing. And every once in a while some creationist comes forward with an actual degree in biochemistry or some other fancy thing, that isn't a bought one.

But it seems quite supsicious that people usually believe in either Evolution or Creationism. You never meet anyone who says they don't believe in Evolution, and don't really know how the world came about. If they don't believe in evolution, they always go grab the bible's version, and are unable to give any reason for it other than their faith.

Reply to post 523:

Just to be pedantic - wasn't Canute trying to prove that even a king couldn't hold the tide back?

Yes, well. There is that. It's either one or the other now, isn't it. If you don't believe in evolution, then you must buy the book of Genesis. I wouldn't mind meeting someone who just doesn't know. But then again, what about non Judeo-Christian-Muslim countries? How does a native Buddhist (I have issues with Western Buddhists...always trying to make Buddha a god and all that!), or a Hindu (or a Sikh for that matter) think the world came about? Aren't we talking about creation myths just as absurd and/or profound as the Torah/Bible/Koran? Enleuki, Ashtoreth, etc? So really, creation mythology isn't specifically western, is it?

Agreed. It would be really interesting to get some non-western perspectives.

Any takers?

Ste

No, but the others just usually don't try and claim their creation myths as scientific theories.

Reply to 530.
Yes he was trying to prove his own infallibility, but he still tried to hold back the tide - and it makes an excellent mental image. I'm all for visual shorthand .
I've not looked into other creation myths, I need some enlightenment!
I don't 'believe in' evolution, I just feel that as a theory it has a lot of evidence to support it. In fact, a lot of people would claim that the evidence is overwhelming, but an open mind means being able to change it if necessary.

The 'God put dinosaur bones in the Earth to test the faithful/hoodwink the wicked' is what is commonly known as a purple dragon hypothosis and, as such, can be dismissed with a patronising smile.

Good point Xanatic, but those claims are so laughable that you don't usually have to worry about it. When creationists try to force their myths as facts upon children is where the real trouble starts.



Ste

Some of that starts with parents not being able to explain an answer when one is insisted upon. I have a small person, and she asks questions like "why is the cat a cat and not a dog?" And frankly, explaining genetics is beyond her comprehension, and my patience. Sometimes, by default, I tell her that God made it that way. Of course there's a scientific reason, but she doesn't want that.

Now, a "why is the sky blue" gets a real response...refraction, etc. Am I simplifying for her? Of course. But the short point to a long post is that when she's older, she will get the reasons, both from school and from us. It's the people who don't stop hearing "because God wanted it that way" that have issues.

I've had the 'why is a cat a cat?' question and I tend to answer 'because its mummy and daddy were cats.' That's genetics simple enough for a two-year-old.

The crestion myths are laughable? Many of them makes more sense than the Babylonian one, yet people still believe in that. Sort of like how if an adult believes in Santa Claus, people will laugh at him all the way to the church.

And I'd say giving your daughter some half-baked stuff about genetics, would be better than just saying "God made it that way". It's no better than saying shut up. At least that's how I felt it as a kid.

Xanatic, I didn't mean the creation myths themselves are laughable, I have respect for them when understood properly. The "laughable" comment was in response to your post 533 .

Ste

I tried "because its mommy and daddy were cats" and what I got back was "well, why were they cats"?

And I would never tell my daughter to shut up. She believes in God, and I am not going to discourage it. What makes it odd is that her father is an atheist, and I don't talk about my version of God (which would make monotheistic, and probably most polytheistic folk cringe). If it comforts her, what's the problem? I am not planning on telling her that the book of Genesis is fact, for crying out loud. I just think that a belief in evolution does not preclude, prima faciae, a belief in God. or Gods, for that matter.