h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The Wright Brothers invented powered flight in the same way that Columbus discovered America, ie, not at all.

Still Stellar though.

Jwf the people I know who do this are not lazy nor demotivated I can assure you of that. Indeed one of the pioneers of the modern organic solar cells is one of the hardest working and motivated scientists I've ever seen and he works closely with several spin off companies making zillions out of the technology.
If physics is against you though, no matter how much money, enthusiasm and hard work is going to make it work. I know it won't go down well with you but I'm going to stick my neck out and say that the energy density in solar power just isn't there to power cars - or at least not cars of the power speed and load bearing ability that we currently know.

It may well be possible

The efficiency rating for even the best, most modern, solar cells is abysmal, normally around 18% or so, sometimes up around 40 (in a specialised configuration - not suitable for say sticking on the side of your house...even if there was any sun in the UK...which there isn't)

Actually the diffuseness/scatterdness of the light in countries of the UK's lattitude is ideal for the organic solar cells I was referring to earlier.
The older and more common ceramic cells (including those you'll get on your house currently) are not so good in our tawdry climate though.

~ jwf





This link will explain some of the difficulties with solar power...especially the storage of enough of that energy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/science/earth/15sola.html?_r=0

Everytime you convert energy into a different form you lose some of it.

I would buy an electric car if instead of little stations along the road, you would charge them in the attic of gothic castles using lightning storms.

Xanatic



"It's a drive! It's a drive"

I expected more than that for a Frankenstein pun...

EEEEKKKKKK!!!!!!

>> you either finish with "into" (a proposition) or "a proposition" <<

You are beginning to understand me.
Welcome to my whirled where neuroplasticity
as an agent of langwitch is a way of Liff.


~jwf~

Orcus, I appreciate your effort to convince me that
all that can be done is being done; and that:

>> the energy density in solar power just isn't there
to power cars <<

but I'm still hearing echoes of the same reluctance
to accept heavier than air machines being able to fly.
Yes, it looks impossible until you put a little curve
in the wings.

Maybe what solar power research needs is a bit of a curve.
A closer look at how nature does it.

For example:
Who is working on an organic conversion system?
Something that taps into solar radiation in a process
like Photosynthesis rather than a 'physical' conversion.
Perhaps we are too focussed (blinkered) by our knowledge
of photo-voltaic processes, super-conductors and the
workings of electro-magnetics. Maybe the leaves have
something to tell us - if only as a most efficacious
form of solar collection.

Just a thought.

~jwf~

There's an electric-car-charging post outside my office. So one car a day can charge there - nobody's going to park their car there for the three hours it takes, then move it to another spot. So they'll just leave it there for the full day and collect it on the way home from work.

And what happens if you drive into the city and find the one charger is occupied?

Also important, what happens if a dog pees on an electric car charging post?

Dagnabbit! I just noticed that the very long, thought out, multipoint post I wrote 7 hours ago, didn't actually post (Pliny's fault or mine, not sure).

Hmm... some of my points were:

1.) fossil fuel cars are NOT as efficient as even current electric cars charged from traditional fossil fuel plants. However, obviously alternate sources of original electricity generation are preferable.

b- I mentioned something about the current advances in alternative energy such as thorium LFTR reactors and other 4th gen nuclear power production that could seriously mitigate most of the ills associated with old fashioned breeder reactors. However, there are some strong opponents to such advances. Currently republicans in the US Congress and Senate are actively trying (and often succeeding) in ending tax breaks and other incentives for alternative energy solutions. Also, battery technology is improving, but there are many previously developed battery technologies that were bought by fossil fuel and traditional auto companies only to have their patents locked away to deter competition.

And also,

I answered the original question as it's one I've given a lot of thought over the last year or so. I have been wanting an electric motorcycle for some time. I have a short commute of just 20-30 miles each day (in Texas, anything under 50 miles is a short commute).

I decided on three criteria to be met before I'll purchase one.

a) It must be able to reach highway speeds (at least 70 mph).
b) It must have a range of >100 miles on one charge.

This year, those two criteria have been met with the Brammo Empulse. http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/2012-brammo-empulse-ar129701.html

Unfortunately...
c) It must be priced at under $10,000. Currently the Empulse models cost $17,000 to $19,000, so the Empulse is pretty far over a sensible budget.

However, I don't expect that to be the case in just a couple of years. Once the prices drop below my goal, it will actually make economic sense to purchase one as the fuel and maintenance costs of a gas motorcycle will justify the lifetime cost of an electric bike. (I used an online calculator that adjusts for the bikes fuel mileage, the price of fuel and average maintenance costs per year.)

If battery and alternative energy technologies improve as they have been, I believe electric vehicles will become popular enough to push the infrastructure changes they'll need.

Oh, and as far as fuel cells, they've been just 5 years away from being viable for well over 20 years.

Solar power is sometimes harnessed in ways other than photovoltaic cells. I read somewhere about an economically feasible system that involved mirrors pointing toward a spot where water was being heated. The sun would bounce off the mirrors and heat the water. The heated water then turned turbines, which then produced electricity.

I read somewhere that a lot of potential energy is lot when fossil fuels are burned to produce electricity. If the electricity is sent over long distances, more energy is lost in transmission. Engineers at car companies have spent decades trying to get as much energy as possible from gasoline. Is it possible that they can get better and better at this?

Photosynthesis is a red herring unfortunately. My first interest into this was thinking that we could mimic nature,

Sadly again, the current generations of photovoltaic cells are already much *more* efficient than the process of photosynthesis. The convert *more* of the Sun's energy into a useable form than plant leaves do.

Photosynthesis is not the answer

Given:

Not to try to sound too much like a conspiracy theorist, but BIG money will always try to stay in control of the future.
Although direct solar energy from the skin of a car may not be the whole answer, solar could still be able to provide a viable future.
If you would be a futurist, it is not okay to assume the standards of today.
The trend has for a very long time been for people to concentrate into cities.

Consider:

BIG money has prospered from centralized power generation.
Hydrogen could be produced more economically locally [or in non-centralized systems] and could use photosynthesis.
Hydrogen can be used to produce electricity.
Your idea of a “normal” car will change in the future.
Cities have created more problems than they solved.
Your idea of a “normal” City will change.
No one solution will work for all situations.
Electric cars could have been the norm if a waste product of Kerosene production [gasoline] was not at the ready to make BIG money… and that would not have precluded the development of supporting transportation systems based on peanut oil [rail and long-haul-lorries].


That future having been glanced, today we give away calculators that I could not afford when they were new.
The current price makes Electric Cars an item for those who can afford them. They will pay the price for your future.
Tesla is a car I would like to be able to afford right now; alas, I am not so privileged.

Baron Grim, when you say that fossil fuel cars are less efficient than electric cars run on electricity generated in fossil fuel power stations, are you taking into account the 17% loss between the power stations and the charging point?