h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

In another thread, about language, anhaga painted
a scenario of rival Viking groups in their longboat
shouting across the water with taunts like, "Your
mother smells of elderberries."

Which made me wonder, not for the first time, why an
insult about one's mother is considered the worst of
all the offensive things people can say to each other.

It seems that currently such insults are popular among
inner city blacks in America. They are the trigger to
engage in physical combat, to the point that one need
not even finish the sentence. Just say 'Yo Momma...'
and the fight is on.

I don't understand this at all. Is it a cultural thing?
In my upbringing no one ever bothered to insult another's
mother. Mothers were not something we thought about or
fought about.

Any thoughts?

~jwf~

They didn't have "son of a bitch" in your day?

Never been to Spain either? Remember the Hijo de la p... they keep saying? It's not meant as a compliment.

true, in fact that is mild...

Still, in those cases they are still insulting you rather than your mother.

The worst Russian swear word I know is something anatomical involving your mother too. It may not be the worst swear word a Russian knows, but it is pretty up there. So to speak.

Insulting someone by insulting their mother - or their lineage/ancestors more generally - does seem to be pretty cross-cultural. In a culture of ancestor worship like Shinto, say, I'm sure it packs an even heftier punch.

I just realized that I may have gotten the reference wrong on that other thread. I believe it is your father who smells of elderberries, so the premise of this thread may be wrong.



But, your mother is a hamster.

Oedipus Rex ed his mother. This set in motion a chain of mother-related insults that continues to this day, but with less collateral damage to the ocular regions.

oh Sol, in my previous employment during the training we had whole days learning Russian insults. As the only woman in a roomful of men it got quite embarassing sometimes (mostly for them). As an Army brat I thought I'd heard just about everything, but Russian swearing takes it to a whole other eyewatering level.

Sorry to be the pedant, but I can't let this go. Your mother did NOT smell of elderberries. Your mother was a hamster, and your FATHER smelt of elderberries.

Now. Go away, or ah shall taunt you a second taahma.

see post 8, please.

Among my friends, "your mum" jokes have been elevated to an art form, to the extent that they are clearly no longer about anyone's actual mother. The comeback of basically agreeing with the joker and developing the theme yourself is an especially devious tactic used by some.

I think KB got it, in that's it's to do with insulting not just them, but their whole lineage. You may be able to know who your father was, but you can always guarantee who your mother was so it may well have come from that.

I got the impression that, in masculine cultures, a man's relationship with his mother is the only place where he is 'allowed' to show 'soft' emotion without it being seen as a sign of weakness. Therefore, striking at a man's mother is a way of striking at a perceived point of vulnerability.

Yo' mamma's so big she gets a -2 size penalty to her AC.

KB in post 2 asks:
>> They didn't have "son of a bitch" in your day? <<

They did. And there were also son of a whore
and son of a gun. Both of these imply an unknown
paternity. (A 'gun' was a lady of ill repute who
would be brought aboard a ship and would lay out
between the gun carriages for the general pleasure
of the crew.)

I suppose in traditional patriarchal societies, knowing
who your father was really mattered. So the insult is
akin to the B word used for a child of unmarried parents.

In my experience these 'son-of-a-' phrases are used
to express anger at someone's selfish, corruptive,
undisciplined or insensitive behaviour - such as cheating,
theft, betrayal, cowardice. And as Xan says the insult
is not aimed at the mother but at the offspring. So too
is son-of-a-bitch of course which implies a total lack
of human dignity or proper upbringing.

(I have further thoughts on the strange idea of someone
boasting they have had sexual relations with your mother
and the whole Oedipus thing later.)


~jwf~

Fair enough, jwf.

Will your further comments be in this thread, or a separate one?

>>Remember the Hijo de la p... they keep saying? It's not meant as a compliment<<

If you listen carefully in the final scene of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly one of the protagonists issues the splendid insult hijo de puta de barrio (son of a slum whore)

My thoughts are wandering wildly on this whole issue.
I just remembered the MILF phenomena.
Gotta have a complete rethink.
Back soon.

~jwf~