h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>All I was doing was expressing frustration that what we ought to know damn well about the workings of our society is not known.<

You must know a lot of exceptional people then..

I would say 95% of family, acquaintances, neighbours..even some friends don't know about that stuff or think much about it. Too busy just getting through the day..

As I said for things to actually change it needs a cross section of the majority to really start to *want* that.

Also I don't have a clue what an underlying philosophy of Occupy is. I'm learning a bit about the one in London from people I met and know who are part of it..and my impression is that its a flux thing and means different things to different people..and of course will evolve.

A week ago I didn't even know what it was properly..as you'll see from the beginning ofthis thread..where people treated me with quite a bit of disdain for my ignorance.

Then I met a woman who was part of it..then a close friend went back to visit..and all the time my impression is that it is evolving as more people are part of it.

But maybe the Glasgow one has more of a definite underlying philosophy?

>>
But maybe the Glasgow one has more of a definite underlying philosophy?

Not that I've seen so far, I have to say.

*Don't get me wrong*. Fair play to them. But don't get your hopes up either. Meh - we have enough flux. Always have had. So what?

Ok, I'm confused

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/247848/20111111/156-edl-members-arrested-planned-attack-occupy.htm

"Police foil a violent mob, thought to be members of the far-right group the English Defence League (EDL), by making mass arrests in Whitehall to "prevent a breach of the peace". 156 people have been arrested so far. It's thought the EDL members were planning to attack the Occupy London protesters camped outside St. Paul's."

The BBC version of the same story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15697632

"Nearly 60 people have been arrested after a group of supporters of the English Defence League (EDL) gathered in central London. The organisation had said it would be in Westminster on Armistice Day to pay its respects to military personnel who had been killed or injured (although) the EDL said it originally planned to stop members of the Muslims Against Crusades (MAC) group from burning poppies.

Police said 57 arrests were made to "prevent a breach of the peace"

Yes the first story is quite muddled. They've muddled up 2 separate things.

The first story is to do with Occupy London hearing rumours of possible EDL attack, and police taking sensible precautions in case rumours are true.

The second story is something that was fairly definitely known to be going to happen. I certainly heard yesterday about all the EDL arrests made in advance.

There'll be more rumours and confusion about since the summer riots. Authorities are gittery. All that stuff last week about police being given rubber bullets..and then of course the student numbers on that demo were vastly down.

**

That's my muddled reading of a lot of muddle.

Freudian slip

>Authorities are gittery

So it's about to kick off, then? Do you reckon?

More likely in St Pauls then in Wall St, I'd say.

No, why?

I've no idea. I'm just talking about the authorities fears and taking no chances.

I don't quite know what you mean by 'kick off' anyway.

They were protecting Occupy. St. Pauls isn't going to kick off, it isn't about that.

You are a bit obsessed with those thought patterns

Because Obama will have to come down hard on any trouble much faster the British would.

Occupy Oakland would kick off too, though.

Politically, Oakland is one to watch. If the Revolution is televised.

So what will the EDL's move be, after they've been humiliated? There'll be some similarly humiliated Muslim Extremists around. Will either of them make mayhem?

I would post an apt Arabic saying, only I've discovered else where that this site won't let me, even if it's transliterated.

I think that the police can justify the arrests if they believed that an attack on Occupy or others was imminant

Threats had been made and I believe that they were credible.

So they were arrested and released without charge, in the circumstancs I don't think unreasonable

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/11/edl-arrests-london-occupy-armistice-day

http://uaf.org.uk/2011/11/edl-fascists-attempt-attack-on-trade-union-unites-north-west-hq/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/27/far-right-attacks-rise

Occupy h2g2

Meanwhile, Trouble Brewing in Oakland.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/11/8755247-trouble-brewing-in-oakland

There has already been violence used in Oakland. Oakland has a strong ant-Capitalist tradition. The CP-USA were active there - Jessica Mitford amongst others achieved desegregation in the late 40's and 50's. The Black Panther Movement was pretty much born there. It has a strong African-American Muslim tradition. It is a working class city with massive poverty, just over the water from wealth - including the Berkeley radicals.

End with a song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPz7g3-Wu5w

With regard to the EDL "attacking" occupy and the Unions - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoZ7JXkv6_o

They're racists and thugs - not free marketeers.

I find the concept of arresting a lot of people beforehand for something they *might* do a very worrying precedent.

They may well be doing it to any group the state dissaproves of eventually or even Occupy people if some of the nightmare scenarios avout what may happen in the EU if the whole thing implodes.

Yes there is legislation to ban marches etc..but to actually arrest lots of people because of what they *might* do is something I'd argue strongly against unless there was clear cut evidence such as terrorists about to blow people up etc

But I heard on the radio the other day that the arrests were all to do with preventing them becoming involved in the Armistice day ceremonies. Occupy wasn't mentioned.

And no I'm not interested in getting into a heated debate about it. I'm just chucking it in the mix as some thoughts that occur to me at present. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.

I didn't check out your links Peanut..too lazy just now. But really you could have posted at least a couple of specific quotes from those links..

I always do that..

One thing that has definitely changed since the 2001 attack, is that police are more likely to arrest someone for what they are planning, rather than wait for them to actually do it.
I heard that Occupy Portland, Oregon has been given a three day eviction notice.

swl - was anyone implying that the EDL are free-marketeers? I didn't see that Post.

I'm on a rare visit to 'That London' ((c) Beatrice) Weds pm so I'll almost probably go along to St Pauls.

Meanwhile, here's the best analysis I've seen so far:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/11/201111191022862285.html

It's not surprising that it comes from an Arabic source. There are various revolutionary traditions and it's undeniable that some headway is being made in the Arabic world. To my mind - while I can understand Occupy's stated intention of remaining 'above conventional politics' they should not drive the various tendencies away. Let them join in. They will only take over to the extent that they are allowed to. Meanwhile - they all have their ideas, analyses and tactics to bring to bear.

It's great fun discussing politics with Middle Easterners. In my local kebab/curry/pizza place there's a guy from the Kurdistan/Iraq Communist Party and another from the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (M-L).