h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>> Is it political to observe that scummy people are doing scummy things?

Nature or nurture?

If nurture, then yes, it is a political statement.

If nature, then no it isn't.

> praise for New Labour<

I mentioned New Labour earlier to point out the fact that my area was transformed under them. That's a fact. Not sure I'd call it praise.

>>PP Just heard on the radio, a young person involved in the disturbances.

'We're just showing the rich people that we can do what we want'.<<

This is the BBC report:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

swl,

> Is it political to observe that scummy people are doing scummy things?

No, it's political to claim that there are only scummy people doing scummy things.

> Do you think a significant proportion of the rioters and looters are doing it to make a political point?

I didn't say they were, and I'm not sure that anyone suggested it. The original demo in Tottenham was in some sense political, it was about a police shooting, but probably the rest of them are not about that.

> The Sky reporter last night who tried to ask looters about their motives concluded that these were just nasty people.

I'm sure they didn't do any selection to make a point, and I'm sure their conclusion was entirely objective.

> I think they're doing it to smash stuff up, thieve and generally run riot and I'd hazard a guess that such behaviour happens routinely on a smaller scale but this one has been feeding on itself and the publicity it's generating.

So why now? Or is it just entirely random that it should be now rather than any other time?

> On this thread alone we've had speculation about the Far Right, praise for New Labour, jibes at bankers and pretty puerile political digs about Cameron.

One mention of the possibility that the BNP/EDL might use this - that's not making a political point because they weren't saying that they started it or are involved in it now, they were worrying that they might in future (quite reasonably).

New Labour/bankers - you mean the comment from Effers? That looked to me like an attempt at understanding and not about scoring political points. Read it again - it's pretty mildly worded and qualified.

And Cameron? Effers just mentioned that we was flying home. He is an old Etonian twit, so that's just an accurate description.

> On the telly we've had...

I agree that people are making political points, but not here.

> McIntyre has been inciting riots...

Having read his tweets, I would tend to disagree (one tweet suggesting people get on the streets), but fair enough he certainly didn't express himself well.

OK, gotta go catch a train.

<>

It's summer. We've had the example earlier in the year of people rioting in London. We've got the phenomena of Blackberry Messaging allowing people to "flash mob" more easily than before.

There's claims that it's a result of racism - but it's clear that the rioters are from every ethnic background so that doesn't wash.

There's claims that it's due to deprivation - but the pattern of rioting doesn't tally with the most deprived areas.

There's claims that it's due to the failings of the Met - but there's been trouble in other cities throughout England.

Watch the news, listen to the long line of witnesses who are almost without exception saying the people doing this are thugs, mindless, criminals and saying there are no excuses, causes or reasonable reasons for this.

These riots aren't like Toxteth or Brixton in the 80's - this is about sheer naked greed.

IMHO

And seeing the behaviour of the looters and what they're stealing - carpet samples, glasses from opticians, crisps from Poundland, Immodium from Boots, I'd suggest we may well be witnessing some kind of mass hysteria where people are stealing and destroying for the sake of it.

perhaps part of the problem is that even were we dissatisfied enough to riot which certain members of the public may be inclined to do, what are we rioting against, I would say that the people especially the younger members of society don't know, they don't know what they are meant to be pushing against or what they hate or what they should feel for anything there is no guidance for what should be done, apathy has taken rule in most everything so when the straw finally brakes the camels back what then, what are they to do
march on parliament? because that works very well doesn't it

Thing about smaller towns is that's it's harder to depersonalise the people you are hurting and harder to feel as though you are in a safely anonymous crowd. Plus you are slightly more likely to know the policemen, or the sister/ brother of the policemen. Shops and restaurants in my hometown, for example, were pretty thoroughly staffed by teenagers outside of school hours at least. In London the same kind of positions are staffed by foreigners. Less fun to loot a shop when you know who works there.


My husband thinks that the police's hands are tied in this situation because of the parallels that might be drawn around the world to protests elsewhere. If, he says, the police go in with this robust response and it is robust, any breaks that were on the authorities' response elsewhere will come right off, because they can point to the UK and say...

I think our politicians are not that self sacrificing, to be honest. If I were being political, I'd say, expecially not this lot.

Incidently, I'm finding it quite amusing that we are getting calls from Russia asking us if we are ok. You know you're in trouble as a country when...

Of course, my husband also says that it is what goes around comes around for meddlesome Anglos Saxon foreign policies and how do we know that the orchestration isn't, for example, coming from Russia trying to destabilise the UK?

He's probably joking mind. Probably.

There's trouble in both Manchester and Salford and there will be blood in Leeds before the night is done.

Massive police presence (police patrols along the canal towpath) and a Leeds-Bradford derby at Elland Road. Saw plenty of young blokes spoiling for trouble and police more than happy to give it to them.

Particularly disturbing behaviour in Manchester has been caught on camera:

http://yfrog.com/kkjmhqaj

I was shocked to go out just now to see nearly all the shops heavily shuttered and batoned down. And the again sirens are going off.

It really is quite frightening.

Please take note. I am normally a passive and placid sort of chap. I don't like sweary chanting at my football club. I give way to traffic coming uphill.

The time has come for police or army to take a robust approach. If people wrecking the country I live in get hurt, then so be it. They don't understand please and thank you.

If these thugs think they might get hurt when wrecking other people's livelihoods, they may be less likely to go out tomorrow and repeat the performance.

THEN we look at the causes and try to do something about it. We have to because this bunch of thugs will have children that they will drag up with the same values. And they will PROBABLY have more than your average H2G2 member.

I really am fed up with this moronic behaviour.

PP

Various reports of BNP/EDL vigilante groups getting together. Because what we really need is a race riot on top of everything.

<<Various reports of BNP/EDL vigilante groups getting together

Every toilet needs a t*rd.

Bargains in London -

http://london.craigslist.co.uk/mob/2536072357.html

40 Apple iPhone 4's 16GB - £320

Love the link.

Mob 25 you say? Which one was that?

Here we has Louis Vuitton coach bags for sale the day after, mostly from the same (scummy) neighbourhood.

Of course we could solve the problems at a stroke. Send in the army, maybe augmented by black-and-tan style auxiliaries. Round up all the scum and hold them under a harsh regime in internment camps.

I'm not convinced we'd like the resultant society, mind...