A Conversation for Ask h2g2

Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 81

Rudest Elf


"But isn't that much as 'brought' can be 'brang', or 'thought' 'thunk' (participle),"

No, kzwg, it isn't: http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/plead?view=uk

smiley - reindeer


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 82

kuzushi


Your link confirms that the variant 'pled' is not the orthodox form.


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 83

kuzushi


plead

• verb (past and past part. pleaded or N. Amer., Scottish, or dialect pled)


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 84

kuzushi


Like I said, it's akin to 'dove' instead of 'dived'.


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 85

Br Robyn Hoode - Navo - complete with theme tune

In a similar vein 'led' as in 'He was led (or laid, but pronounced led) down' instead of 'laying' or 'lying' I am told is a Bristol thing... Anyone else heard it anywhere else?


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 86

Mrs Zen

West country perhaps - I've heard that in Gloucestershire.

I've never heard 'brang' though. 'Brung', yes, as a joke "I was brung up to talk proper" but not brang.


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 87

kuzushi


'Brang' is the past tense form, 'brung' is the past participle form.
Kids say stuff like this, conjugating 'bring' like 'ring'.


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 88

Mrs Zen

Well, it's Anglo-Saxon vowel-shift stuff, isn't it. And there's no right and wrong, merely usage.


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 89

kuzushi


It's true that language is merely how people use it, but there is what is considered correct usage. Some might argue it's ok to say, "I knowed what to do", or "The dog eated the meat", but most people would find this 'wrong'.


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 90

Mrs Zen

There is effective and ineffective usage, and that depends on context, so if you are in a formal situation you need formal language - "correct" language, if you like.

But it's as meaningless to talk about correct and incorrect usage as it is to talk about round and square usage, or red and yellow usage, or furry and satiny usage.


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 91

Br Robyn Hoode - Navo - complete with theme tune

Oh I dont know. The dog ate his green when you mean the dog ate his food is pretty pointless smiley - winkeyesmiley - tongueincheek


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 92

kuzushi


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So it's not incorrect usage to say "My friend goed to Spain"?


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 93

Mrs Zen

Is it usage? Have you ever heard anyone say that?


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 94

kuzushi


Yes, not often, but I have heard very educationally disadvantaged people use forms like that.


Gramitically correct -or not- thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 95

Not-so-bald-eagle


smiley - lurk


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 96

kuzushi


Anyway, I take it that you'd say it's not incorrect usage to say "My friend goed to Spain".


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 97

Mrs Zen

"Forms like that" eh?

If it's usage it's usage. If it's made up then it's not usage. And you are right, I don't use the terms "correct" or "incorrect" in the context of English usage by native speakers. Thinking about it, I might use it in the context of non-native speakers.

I do use terms like "formal", "educated", "effective", "clear", and "local" and "dialect" and "idiosyncratic" and "quirky" and even "perceived as correct", but I don't use "correct" and "incorrect" because - as I said - they're meaningless. It's like talking about the "correct way to have sex" or "the correct way to kiss" or "the correct way to digest your food" or "the correct way to laugh at a joke".


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 98

kuzushi


<<"Forms like that" eh?>>

Yes, treating strong verbs as if they were weak verbs.

What is perceived as correct or incorrect is governed by convention, and ultimately it is arbitrary, but I don't agree that it's meaningless.

Just because something is arbitrary or a convention doesn't necessarily make it meaningless. In the UK we drive on the left, and this is an arbitrary thing, but it's very important for road safety, and in the sphere of language knowing and observing the conventions aids communication.


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 99

Mrs Zen

Did I say it was meaningless?


Thoughts about the Polanski thing?

Post 100

KB

Now we've finished with the Polanski trivia we can get on to the controversial stuff. smiley - winkeye


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