h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Otto Fisch:



Exactly, I would have asked whether they owned a chain of newsagents, car show-rooms, restaurants, Dr surgeries, legal firms.

The one of many things about Indians is that they sure know what businesses to get into to make cash - they come over here, set up profitable businesses and take our cash...would do they think they are! A Sikh friend said exactly the same thing. He actually became an engineer and also not buying a BMW or Merc car to try not to be 'stereotypically' Indian...he was still happy to be stereotypical and have an arranged marriage but his wife is gorgeous so I don't blame him. When you get a Sikh trying not to be stereotypical there has to be some truth in stereotypes.

The person concerned most assuredly has had training in this. I mentioned this topic to my mother, a nurse with 35 yrs+ experience and she rolled her eyes. Any "unofficial" complaint will be dealt with in one of two ways - either it will be taken seriously and the nurse will be disciplined, possibly fired or (more likely) the Practice Manager will make polite noises, hang up the phone and say "Get a life". Practice Nurses and District Nurses regularly have to attend "Diversity & Awareness" courses paid for by the Health Trusts. After the first such my mother attended, the District Nurses were in an uproar having been dragged away from patients for an afternoon to be lectured at by a pompous woman for 2 hours. As one nurse put it, "It's basic good manners, which we could probably teach her, judging by the way she spoke to us".

What really infuriates the District Nurses is how they see cutbacks in every other area but the number of managers, consultants and "Diversity Officers" is always increasing. Nurses have to buy their own scissors and guard them jealously when they visit hospitals as it's not unusual for one pair of scissors to be shared between two wards. Then there's the poor quality of basic medical supplies. To save money, the Trusts supply swabs from the cheapest source. Unfortunately, they are so rough they irritate wounds which then take longer to heal and cause the patient discomfort. To get round this, District Nurses buy the swabs they used to use from Ebay, using their own money.

Money has been pouring into the NHS and there have been some improvements, but the vast majority goes into the pockets of the likes of Diversity Awareness trainers whilst the standard of care goes down and nurses get ever more stressed with increasing case-loads. And judging by the story here, it isn't even working! What a bloody waste.

Otto, I'm sorry you were belatedly offended, but you got your health care, you got your jab, the nurse was trying to make conversation cos she's a human being. I'd rather put up with the odd inappropriate comment and get good health care than see more money taken away from the front line and squandered on PC projects.

coelacanth < And I get quite a lot of bookings for French cover, since that's what they assume my subject is. And when I explain that it isn't, people are usually surprised. I've never thought to pass any comment about stereotyping.>

I am not sure whether that really is stereotyping though...statistically I would have thought the majority of people with a French surname would speak French. More 'jumping to a statistically significant' conclusion!

Otto I find it quite strange that you say,

> For the sake of this posting, I'm going to pretend it's an Italian name, though it isn't.<

Why can't you just spell out which ethnic group you are referring to? You of course don't have to give the actual name, but for reasons of clarity it would help discussion.

In terms of context I would have a different view of someone saying something like, 'Oh with a name like that I'm surprised you are not a taylor', in the context that say you had a name like Cohen, than I would to someone saying, 'Oh with a name like that I suppose you are a fan of roast beef' in the context that say you had a name like 'Smith', and it was said to you by a non English person.

In context, the former would be quite insulting given the history of nasty prejudice against Jews in many cultures. The latter would be just a bit of fluff to be laughed off.

coelacanth next time someone makes the French connection, just say
"I'm not French, that was my dead husbands name" and sniff softly

then wait for the awkward embarrassed apology

As amusing as that might be, there would be even more embarrasment should the news of his demise reach the very much still living and breathing ex Mr coelacanth!

My pet peeve in this sort of thing is that people often assume that politeness / political correctness should only be applied to non-caucasians.

However, if you're a westerner, living in a different country, or are into morris dancing, or are Welsh/English/Scottish/N-Irish/Irish/None of the Above you're fair game.

I generally don't see myself as any different from any other immigrant to the UK - but my English sounds native to most people and I hear all sorts of comments along the lines of 'foreigners that come over here and take our jobs' because people forget that I am indeed one of those foreigners. I usually respond by saying the most outre, racist remark and then grinning like crazy - the speaker then usually recoils in horror (or admiration) that someone has had the nerve to say exactly what they're thinking. And then they remember that I am in fact an immigrant and then they shamefacedly leg it. Generally speaking.

Also, when you're speaking one language, doesn't mean you're not listening in others...
I.e. just because you see a group of someones speaking their native language doesn't mean they're not listening in English. And vice versa. I speak English most of the time, but I 'listen' in several languages, so comments about my build, looks, nature, etc. most assuredly get noted and then frowned at!

ismarah

"Why can't you just spell out which ethnic group you are referring to? You of course don't have to give the actual name, but for reasons of clarity it would help discussion."

Because I've already left more clues than I should have done about my identity on this site over the years. I'm not in the least bit famous or infamous, and I've got no reason to be paranoid, but there you go.

Effers, you're pretty much right, especially about the context and the effect that the racial group referred to actually matters. My surname (or a very close variant of it) is often assumed to be Jewish. What was said to me was "I bet with a name like that your family own a chain of jewellers in London."

As I said before, I wasn't offended because I'm not Jewish, but I do consider that comment to be inappropriate and offensive. Does anyone disagree?

Not to me, but then it's out of context here. As long as I can remember there haven't been any "typically Jewish" businesses here in Germany, nor in the generation before mine, because so few came back after the war...

Don't know what the stereotype is over there!

> What was said to me was "I bet with a name like that your family own a chain of jewellers in London." <

In which case I'd call that pretty clear cut racism, and completely unacceptable behaviour from a professional health worker. If it was me I's still be seething, whether I happened to be Jewish or not.

It's entirely up to you I think, in terms of what you should do. In your place I'd be worried how my complaint might have a personal effect on me. In reality I'd probably let it go if I'm honest. And yes you should have confronted the person at the time, but it's not easy when you're feeling vulnerable, as anyone would in such a setting.

When I met one of my professors for the first time and he heard my presumably Jewish last name, he said, "oh, how interesting, do you practice?" I had no idea what he was talking about, he had to explain that he meant, "do you practice your faith?"

I don't much care for the nurse's comment, it was pretty stupid, but I would still let it go; the moment to react was when it was said. Next time, give the person a serious look and ask them, "why do you say/ask that?", and watch them cringe in embarrasment. They'll never do it again.

Speaking of embarrassment... here's that word again, with all the letters present...

So in Jonathan Miller's famous phrase, you're only Jew-ish.

Yeah - now that you've given the full details, it does seem even more egregiously insensitive. If it had happened to me, my preference would be to ignore the 'Pah! All this anti-racism nonsense' evidenced by some of the comments here and take it up with the practice.

To be honest I would say if it's causing you a lot of concern then raise it with the Practice Manager, if it's not really bothering you then let it go, it's a bit late now to raise an informal complaint. Although possibly if you talk to your Jewish friends they might not find it offensive, or not bad enough to be warrant an actual complaint. I've often noticed non-Irish friends being outraged by anti-Irish comments which (depending on context) I, myself, am not all that oannoyed by so sometimes we can be a bit over-sensitive on behalf of others.

so your a Cohen and she made a crack about films???????

come right back with, "yeah! i make hard core pornography, do you want to be in my next production"

I was thinking about this last night and it occured to me that a lot of what is assumed to be racist is largely down to laziness/bad manners. For example someone (I think Ed) raised the point about getting someone's name wrong, now I get this a lot because my name's not a very common one, but it is a western name and as I live in Ireland I've never considered people mispronouncing/spelling my name to be down to anything other than speed reading (and so missing a letter) or plain bad manners (i.e. persisting with the mistake even when they've been corrected.

>> What was said to me was "I bet with a name like that your family own a chain of jewellers in London." <<

It's hard for me to get a sense of how that affected you Otto, because it's out of context (for me being in NZ, and also not knowing the tone etc of the nurse). I think my response would be to think 'what a moron', but also I can imagine feeling the surprise of racism too.

It's fine for you to feel offense on behalf of other people. That's a sane part of acknowledging priviledge.

I've spent alot of time in places where I have to put up with stupid, overt sexism. Fortunately those places are also places where you can give people quite alot of shit, so if someone says something stupid I can have them on about it in a confrontational way that is also caring of the relationship. However I wouldn't expect to have to relate like that in a medical centre. That for me is the crux of your story, that it was while you were a patient that this was said to you. There are all sorts of dynamics that go on in that situation and adding racially base comments seems very insensitive or ignorant.

As for action, I agree about not phoning the practice manager. I think it is something best dealt with directly at the time. I guess you could say something to her if you see her again.

As an aside, did any one else find the jokey comments about having sex with animals strange juxtaposed alongside conversation about inappropriate comments about ethnicity?

Why are people now saying that making a comment about a Jewish person owning a jewellers is worse than making a comment about an Italian owning a pizzeria?

Isn't that in itself double standards?

Well in context of centuries of Jews being portrayed as money grabbing parasites out to exploit us poor non Jews, actually forming the basis of the Nazi ideology of whipping up their brand of hatred, not to mention Jews being excluded from the professions in our culture in the past, resulting in them having to traditionally only do certain jobs, I'd have thought the difference was pretty obvious.

I'm not aware of the same historical context applying to Italians.