h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Why is wearing fur considered to be a symptom of self-indulgent decadence and general meanness to cute little animals, and wearing leather considered to be cool?

Ben
*who feels equally guilty about wearing both, and *still* does it*

Dunno, possibly cos most leather is a by product of the killing of animals? Whereas fur is the main product.

BTW, are you on a major posting spree or what?

Just wanted to do something practical to spark some debate here in askh2g2.

I am not entirely sure I buy the leather-is-a-by-product argument. That would mean that rabbit-skin was ok. Now I admit that rabbit isn't mink, but try wearing it at an anti-fur rally and see what happens.

B

yeah well, find any bunch of zealots and do something which is only slightly contrary to their beliefs and you get jumped on. Don't mean it is wrong. Just wrong for them. I don't apply my life rules to them.

I confess that I feel more qualms wearing my fur coat, than I do wearing my suede jacket. The fur coat is more obviously a piece of luxurious vanity.

Ben

I wear suede work boots and have just bought leather boots.I think it comes down to ....cows are used and bred specifically for human consumption where as alot of fur is obtained in, inhumane ways and from endangered species.I have nothing against fur, so long as it is farmed humanely,
I also don't eat cage eggs from hens( in oz, it must be stated on the packet how the eggs are produced)Barn eggs are hens that roam free in barns,not quite as good as free range but better than caged hens

Some fur, I don't believe should be worn. Seal fur being one. There's a reason a lot of seals are on the endangered species' list. But with regards to rabbit fur, I don't see what the fuss is about. Rabbits are (especially in Australia) pests. They're killed and oft left to rot, or buried in a landfill. Why not use their skin for clothing and whatnot?

True, Thats what I mean about farmed fur,If animals are bred in humane conditions for fur and meat thats fine, but going out and slaughtering poor seals is not. Most rabbits in oz aren't worth anything, so are killed. Akubra Hats come from farmed rabbits for instance. Wild rabbit fur is usually in poor condition anyway.Believe me I know,we often go shooting and can't even eat then because of miximitosis and rabbit callisi virus( 2 viruses released to control rabbit population)

I think part of the guilt over fur thing is related to the idea of flaunting wealth too. Possibly.

Sorry it's way to early for me to be even half-way coherent.

Whereas leather is worn by Rock Stars, cool bikers etc, and so has a cool reputation.

I don't wear leather apart from shoes (wouldn't be without my Docs) but have a hankering for leather trousers and a suede jacket. I may give in to that this year. And probably feel guilty wearing them.

Damn! I woke up this morning and just realised that I could have given a much better title to this thread.

So is it better to kill farmed animals or wild animals for food and for their fur?

Ben

Farmed amimals ( so long as farmed humanely). this is some thing I will go on about FOREVER.There is a difference in farming animals humanely and just farming animals. I am against cage hens and pigs that are squashed in tiny pens and even some feed lots for cows. I insist all meat I eat( and I like my meat) is farmed well.
My butcher has come to know me and my likes and will show me where my meat comes from. With the aid of the net, I am now able to see where any meat I eat comes from.
This goes for fur and skin as well.

I feel that if you (this is a general 'you', I'm not addressing anybody here) kill an animal for your benefit, or have an animal killed on your behalf, which is more common, then I would want it to be achieved with the minimum amount of suffering. That to me implies either killing wild animals swiftly and as painlessly as possible, or farming them in as natural an environment as you can devise, then killing them as painlessly and swiftly as possible.

As to fur versus leather - I have to say I wear leather, but I wouldn't be comfortable with fur. Somehow fur has much more of a connotation of vanity (here in Britain, anyway) whereas leather seems more of a practical solution for which there isn't a good man-made alternative. I realise that this is probably a misconception to do with the way the products are marketed and portrayed, and that I would take a different attitude if I lived in the Arctic Circle. But I'm a product of my environment, and I tend not to think about it, until somebody like Ben nudges me. Isn't that how most people carry on?

"Isn't that how most people carry on?"

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more!



B

Any amimal humanely farmed and killed, should be used to the fullest but I am against the indiscriminate killing of endangered species simply for fur ( or elephants for ivory, say)

*Not rising to Ben's aside - ooh Matron!*
Buggrit, that's another double entendre. Oh well...

I agree with what you say, Helelou2 - the ivory market seems inexcusable to me, and I despise the seal clubbers - but I wonder if my attitude would be different if I lived in the far north and seals were my main source of fat and clothing, or if I lived in the famine belt of Africa and saw a way to feed my family. I don't know enough about it to put forward a coherent argument either way, but I guess it boils down to whether the person killing the animal has a viable economic choice not to do so.

In that sense it would be easier for me to not wear amimal products or eat meat - I live in a big city in an economically advanced country, and there are easily available alternatives for me - I *choose* to wear leather and eat meat. I wouldn't have the same range of choices if I lived in the Serengeti or Siberia.

I'm also against the indiscriminate killing of endangered species, or anything else for that matter - but then I'm reluctant to condemn a man until I've walked a mile in his shoes. (At least that way when I condemn him I'm a mile away and I've got his shoes! )

True ha ha Yes some poachers do it for living but most I think do it because it makes money
Killing something and using it all,only taking what you need, is a creed of many races,and they live in harmony with nature,but then you get those thar kill indisciminately and ruin it for everyone else.
Yes you have the choice,and the choice I have made is to find out where Thing comes from and then but.If we all support the *right* choice, then we might be able to make a difference.

My view :

Clothes come in all shapes and sizes and have varying degrees of protection. Wearing a fur coat is not a necessity, and therefore murdering an animal for it cannot be justified.

However, meat *is* a necessity; at least for me. It gives nutrients that keeps my own diet balanced. Leather is a by-product, and therefore it can be justified, because nothing on the animal is going to waste. A cow is not killed for it's skin and left rotting in a pile somewhere.

I personally find it sickening to see people wearing dead animal fur on their body. It is purely and simply a wasteful extravagence, and a grotesque one at that.

But hey. If you want to wear it, that's your own problem.

I wear ugg boots (sheepskin boots)but I know the rest of the sheep is used.What I object to, and will keep on saying) is I am against indiscriminate or inhumae killing of animals to clothe humans.If the whole animal is used,that's alright,but killing baby seals for instance, that's not( unless you're an eskimoo,killing for food and clothing)

What about culling seals to control population? Is that ok?

Culling animals to control population is such a pile of BS.