A Conversation for Ask h2g2

2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 81

Dogster

Hehe, I like Clive's description better smiley - smiley


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 82

Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic.

smiley - zen


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 83

Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk

Thanks for explaining it, I did notice the *ahem* trippy appearance at the end.
It's the whole HAL thing that worries me with it's Frankensteinesque (smiley - online2longwhat a word!) plot. I once read a set of science fiction works from '40s and '50s magazines, set out in a semi-autobiographical way by Isaac Asimov. He described how, before the '40s, pretty much all science fiction work had the same plot, i.e. 'A machine is created, which then destroys its creator'. This seems to be yet another throwback to that, despite Asimov's attempts to kick it out with the Three Laws of Robotics. I still don't understand _why_ HAL goes mad. It would take a pretty bizarre circuit failure to do that without harming anything else.
By the way, ironically enough, I found HAL to be the most human, convincing, and even likeable character in the film.


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 84

Uncle Heavy [sic]

there is opne really good short story of his about cannibalism...


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 85

Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic.

There was an explanation put forward i think in the books, which went something along the following.

Hal is given a secret. The true intention of the mission - to follow the signal to jupiter. (The other crew members are shipped on board already hibernating They have already been briefed we presume but they play no part in the story itself) the only people who are kept out of the loop so to speak are bowman & poole.
The tape playing at the end proves that, had things gone to plan, they would have been told eventually but something happens before then.

Hal (I'd need to watch it again to confirm this.) is supposed to be truthful with the crew members, he may be an advanced super-computer but he cannot handle the pyscholoical deceit involved in concealing a lie.
Thus he invents the elborate scheme in responce. (I forget precisely what triggers it, but something happens on board and immeadiately afterwards Hal reports a fault in the transmitter that links the ship across space back to earth. There is nothing wrong with the transmitter in fact. However at Hal's insistence they bring it in to check. They find nothing wrong with the unit either but Hal, as his psychosis deepens, suggests they replace it to see if it fails.

Bowman and Pole are by this point suspicious and despite some meticulous preparations HAL learns they are plotting to turn him off.

Caught betwene having to reveal a) his own lie in deceiving the crew about the failed unit and their true mission and b) his programming to keep the secret safe he resolves to kill the crew. He desposes of poole, and when Bowman attempts to recuse him he then denies Bowman access back into the ship and kills the hibernating scientists.

Bowman is forced into a situation where he must take the final separation of himself from the tools that sustains him and go it alone.

The point is not that man created technology that tried to destroy him ala frankenstein but fits into this over-all motif of man Vs technology.


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 86

Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk

I missed about half-a-dozen posts in the writing of my last one. I suppose the comments about Asimov count as a simulpost.


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 87

Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk

That doesn't explain why HAL killed those in hibernation.
I also don't like or agree with the theme as described, but that's a different matter, and less to do with the film than the book and story in general.
I will definitely try to read 'Sentinel', and find '2010' on video.


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 88

Uncle Heavy [sic]

i think the middle bits of 2001 as a film are good. and HAL is believable more or less. it presents an ethical thingie, anyway.


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 89

Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk

It presents an ethical thingie, but not very well.


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 90

Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic.

of course it does - if he had killed bowman and poole then carried on with the mission as described he would merely have postponed having to reveal his deceit until when the crew awoke.

I always thought explanation worked rather well - I'm intriguied - how would you change it? smiley - smiley

sentinel is included as a short story at the back of one of the most recent editions of 2001. smiley - ok


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 91

fords - number 1 all over heaven

I just couldn't be bothered typing all that out, Clive - I thought evolution would be the best way to sum it up! smiley - smiley

I could go on for days, really, talking about the film normally but I had to get my humble opinion in there, too many people dissing my all-time favourite film smiley - planet


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 92

Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic.

hey it needed defending.smiley - ok it's a good (but plodding) film once in my opinion, you understand some of the subtexts that are guiding events.

Definately worth someone's time if they've got the patience to deal with the lingering ballet piroutets of the space stations and the overly-long "trip" sequence at the end - but then as someone said earlier Kubrick infused that 'wooden' sense about the people and the situations precisely to emphasise (or rather de-emphasise) the peoples importance in the events in which they are taking part. smiley - smiley


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 93

Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk

I think it would be better if someone took it and cut it right down. It could easily go to an hour with no effect on the impact, atmosphere or plot, except to improve them. _Then_ we can talk about the validity of the story, such as there seemed to be at first glance.


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 94

Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic.

hummm....it's funny, when I read that, I thought "but you can't go tampering with the director's vision!" but on a less impulsive consideration, I do reckon the whole multi-coloured flashy pan over landscape shots could be dumped. smiley - weird

but an hour - bit short isn't it? smiley - erm

(and can I just put in a bid for two of the nicest shots in the movie, the waitress walking out one door up the far wall and then upside down into an opposite door on the shuttle craft to the moon, and on-board Discovery, Frank Poole, I believe, clambering down a ladder across the screen horizontally while Dave Bowman runs in a circle away from and then towards the staionary camera. smiley - magic)

oh and I forgot before, there's also the symbolism of the alignemnt of the plantes signifying important events.
The first time we see it is in the pre-credit sequence (i.e this film is about something important.)

Second time is when the monolith arrives with the apes.

The third time when the signal is sent to Jupiter and the last timeime (after a bit more lyircal preamble) we see all of Jupiter's moons line up with the monolith balck-on-black against space, heralding Bowman's re-birth as the star-child.
smiley - star


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 95

Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like

Cutting it down to an hour would reduce it to nothing.
Kubrick is NOT at fault if people's attentions spans are too short. Though having said that, Linda is not hot on attention span for 'boring films' ('The Big Lebowski' smiley - yikes was described as "dull as S**t" by her not so long ago) but she adores 2001.
You can't cut the 'trippy' sequence, the film would lose it's balance completely.
You can say it's a movie you *don't like*, but I don't think you can say it's a *bad* movie-it has stood the test of time pretty well, and still manages to be the one genre film that *most* critics will give the time of day to.
I would pay good money never to have to sit through Grease again, for example, but it is a well made, quality movie. Just not one *I* like.

Interesting thing about Clarke and technology. Most SF is about the effect of technology on man in one way or another, so I don't see that steps outside of the norm that much. I also think compared to most of the authors of his time, he stands up pretty well-Asimov looks more and more creaky as time goes by, and very few of their peer group are still in print. If Clarke had only written a handful of books (Fall of Moondust, The Deep Range, Rendezvous with Rama and Childhood's End come instantly to mind) then he would still deserve a place in the SF Hall of Fame.
If he'd had the common sense to copyright the idea of geo-stationary satellites way back when he'd be an even richer man than his now as well.smiley - winkeye
smiley - shark


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 96

Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic.

I bet he curses that day he thought the'd go to the pub for a pint instead of nippin' of down to the patent office early and got pipped at the post by the guy's from NASA! smiley - laugh

*ahem*

The Big Lebowski - boring!!? DULL!!?? one of the most explosively funneist films I ever seen. smiley - wow

Mark it eight.
Your foot was over the line Donny, mark it zero.
no it was not - mark it eight dude,
THIS IS NOT VIETNAM - MARK IT ZERO!!
Alright alright, it's zero.
The calling the police ma-a-n, put your piece away.
smiley - laugh!!!

I think blue sharks got a point. The films stands as it is, talk of edits or cuts leads you off down a path that cannot be fulfilled and is ultimately pointless 'cos who's ever going to agree on what bits go and what bits should stay? smiley - erm


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 97

Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like

I love the Big Lebowski-hell, I love the Coens full stop (except, curiosly, Miller's Crossing, but I think I need to try that again.)
Saw The Man Who Wasn't There last week. Fantastic movie making of a quality all-to-rarely seen these days.
smiley - shark


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 98

Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic.

Not seen enough of the Cohen's, sadly. smiley - sadface

I've got Fargo (iffy, not sure about that one) O brother where art thou, and the big lebowski crossed off my list. One day I intend to rent them all out/buy them all and watch 'em. smiley - popcornsmiley - cool


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 99

Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like

Fargo is my all time favourite Coen movie, I must say. I just love the unassuming , unflashy, unmacho way that McDormand goes about her job.
Best movie ever for pointing out that women are different to men but just as good, I reckon.
smiley - shark


2001: A Space Odyssey is rubbish!

Post 100

Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic.

Fargo is to me what Miller's crossing is to you I suspect. one I'd need to watch again. Didn't mean I didn't like it I just don't think I quite 'got it' smiley - erm

("you think I look bad you shoulda seen the other guy!") smiley - injured

What would have happened if the Cohens had made 2001 instead of Kubrick!!? smiley - tongueout


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