h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

No worries, Tefkat. Wouldn't want you to perpetuate libel by repeating it from an email. I just thought it might make interesting reading if it had been posted on h2g2 somewhere. Happy sanding!

The Santa Claus joke is something like this: I pointed out that clay_toy sounds like a reincarnation of Playboy Reporter. Lucinda replied with something like "pulling on santa's beard" (removing the disguise from someone who is not very convincing in that disguise).

Now please tell me what means. I hope it's sexier than that Santa joke.

Clipboard,

I went and wrote what LeKZ wrote. I admit that it was pretty strong, but weren't they just being cynical about your cynics?

I'm not trying to poke at old wounds. I just wondered if it is far enough back in the past that you can giggle a little at it?

Barton

Taht's what I was trying to say. I don't think that my Belated Condolences for the fact the Arpeggio was banned should be disregarded because the only conversation I ever had with her was an argument a long time ago.

Clipboard,

Neither do I.

Barton

GTBacchus.

"Maybe, as a sort of compromise, Barton could handle that one, and we could give the itchy-trigger-fingered mp question a miss?"

I'm all for compromizes that don't require my trying to talk in the general direction of Hoovooloo. But, I'm not sure what question you had for SL that you think that *I* could answer. Point at it and I'll try.

Barton

I wonder if SL would like to answer those questions himself... The e-mail address is available, if you want it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/F79791?thread=151597 ...is the thread, since you asked, Barton. It's not really a crucial thing. I was just trying to derail the flame-train by saying something pretty much irrelevant. Lentilla, I'm not particularly inclined to email Silent Lucidity, because I don't feel that I know him, and it wasn't a remotely personal issue. He never showed any eagerness to engage me in any kind of conversation. The question is summarized/clarified here for those who aren't inclined to click on links: It is an issue about which I'd like to see *someone* be lucid, rather than give me the silent treatment, (get it? get it!?) because I'm not convinced that it's possible. You know, people appeal to DNA's vision/ideals/memory when saying that h2g2 should be different. It's fairly annoying, especially when you consider that DNA never portrayed a Guide in his books that was any kind of utopian institution. I'd like to hear from someone who thinks that h2g2 "compromises the spirit of Adams' work". My question is, what would it mean for h2g2 to be faithful to the spirit of DNA's work? An initial question is, what *is* the spirit of the Hitchhiker books? I have my own ideas, but I'm certainly happy to let someone else start. It's not even a particularly inappropriate topic for this thread!

I'm afraid I'd have to pass on that one. My opinion of this guide is that, for all its faults, it far excceds what DNA offered.

DNA's Guide was more a collection of folk tales and cruel jokes on anyone who would follow the advice found in it. If many researchers were like Ford then they were writing in order to have that ID card that could let them sell their principles at the chance of a mention. (Of course, one could argue that Ford had no principles, but I'd rather not have to make that argument. DNA wrote better than that, and Ford proved it in the later books.)

For me, DNA wrote out of a sense of amazement that despite the failings of the human race, it still managed to be worth something, at least on the individual level. He seems to be saying that there are always exceptions no matter how cynical one is tempted to be.

The Hitchhiker series is a masterful presentation of the everyman theme, the lead character passing through the universe, suffering mighty adventures, and coming through it all without having lost the essential quality of innocent goodness no matter how tempted.

Or, perhaps, we should step back further in time to the Book of Job.

What is the Guide, its a device for entertaining the readers while baldly giving them information that would be mind numbingly boring if not delivered with such wit. So, for me the Guide was about wit.

This is why our guide was such a disappointment with the rules that insist on accuracy first and preferably not trying to be funny. Of course, people seemed to find a way around that.

So, to my mind, what our guide has come to share with the Guide is an attempt to pass out mind shatteringly dull information with enough humor to make it interesting if not totally entertaining.

Since 'accurate' to me also means 'complete' (and this seems to be the case for most people contributing in Peer Review, up to a point) we are actually trying to go DNA's Guide one step better. That Guide was clearly anything but complete, as was mutely witnessed by the entry on Earth.

This guide might be taken, then, as the outraged reply to the rest of the universe, 'We *are* interesting!' If we shout loud enough, we might just come to believe it.

There, I've gone all long and pompous again. I feel fulfilled

Barton

And all that while not answering the question.

Barton

GTBacchus -

That, actually, is one of my major pet peeves. Some people on this site abuse Douglas Adams' name by saying "He wouldn't have wanted this," or "We're not being true to his memory," etc. How do we know what he wanted or didn't want? I believe that he would have wanted exactly what we have now - a place where we can have a free flow of ideas, a site where information is digested, mulled over, edited and eventually presented as a reasonably accurate entry, a place where people can come to unscrew the inscrutable. I don't know this, though, because I can't ask him!

I see those that bring up Adams' name in reference to something that
*they* don't like as resorting to emotional blackmail. I'll have no truck with that.

But that's just what I think... And you know what they say about opinions, right?

Oh yeah, and I'll second what Barton posted - excellent literary commmentary. I doubt that DNA had the Book of Job in the front of his mind when he wrote the series, but the influence is certainly there!

Last week the Beeb re-broadcast a "Book Programme(?)" in which DNA was chatting with a bunch of people. (I was driving at the time so my recollection is not perfect - so situation normal.)

During the programme "someone" revealed that a suggestion that HH followed the "traveller" style of "Pilgim's Progress" was a worthy thought because one of Jonathan Swift's favourite books was entitled something like Journey to Paradise (certainly Paradise was in it) and it was written by Arthur Dent. DNA seemed pleasantly surprised by the instance of serendipity.

It was great to hear his voice, irrespective of the fact that what he said was interesting / amusing.

The huge debates triggered by LekZ touch on so many topics.
So I've decided to compile a reading list. I am asking every one
who is seriously interested in the truth to read the works below.


The Oxford Companion To The Mind (Richard L Gregory, O.L Zanqwill)

This book contains contributions from all the world's leading experts in the field of phychology.
The entry 'Multiple Personality' casts very serious doubts as the reality of this condition.


Return Of The Primitive: The Anti-Industrial Revolution (Ayn Rand & Peter Schwartz)

The book contains a collection of essays which represent a 'withering attack'
on the political left. Chapters severely critisize things such as 'feminisim'
and 'multi culturalism' and convincingly demonstrate how individual freedoms and
rights are being trampled on by these movements.


The Fountainhead (Ayn Rand)

This book is philosophy put in the form of a novel. It brilliantly demolishes
the political left, and defines an entirely new concept of the word 'Justice'
It convincingly demonstrates that true justice means respect for individual
rights only and that human beings are masters of their own destiny (ie that there
is no such thing as a 'society' and that the quest for 'equality' is totally
misguided.)


The Demon Haunted World (Carl Sagan)

There is a chapter in this book devoted to 'recovered memories' which casts
severe doubt on their accuracy, and demonstrates how the idea of
'recovered memories' has resulted in severe injustices.


The Emperor's New Mind & Shadows Of The Mind (Roger Penrose)

These books contain a definitive refutation of the idea of brains as 'computers'
They convincingly argue that the human mind cannot be captured by any 'formal system'
and thus cannot be simulated on a computer. The arguments in this book can be used to refute
every single one of the arguments in the book 'Godel, Escher, Bach'. (All the arguments in the
latter book are based on the premise that the brain is a computer)


The Bell Curve (Richard J Herrnstein, Charles Murray)

This book represents a definitive summary of evidence by the worlds leading
experts on 'Intelligence and IQ testing' which prove that the concept of 'g' , a
general intelligence is valid, and that IQ tests, which when properly used, are a
reasonably accurate measure of Intelligence


Essay: On Absolute Truth (Chris Langan)

The smartest man on Earth (Philosopher Chris Langan) presents a first summary
of his life-long work 'The CTMU', which is nothing less than a brilliant
demolition of 'relativistic' world-views and conclusive logical proof that
absolute truth really does exist.

Essay: Introduction To The CTMU (Chris Langan)

The smartest man on Earth (Philosopher Chris Langan) presents a very brief summary
of some of the general ideas for his life-long work 'The CTMU', which contain
conclusive logical and mathematical proof of God's existence. This proof
effectively demolishes relativistic world-views and spells the beginning of the
end for the political left.


All of the books listed should be availiable at a public library, or at any decent sized book
store. One can also order all of them from 'Amazon' online book-store.

The essays of Chris Langan are avaliaible for viewing at the 'Megafoundation'
website.

Why Playboy, how good of you to plan our reading for us.

Barton

of course, if you take penrose arguaments to their logical conclusion, then the brain can't work, as the mind can't be any form of information processing system.

If the mind can be an information processing system, thenthe arguaments in godel, escher, bach still apply, as it is based on godel's incompleteness theorem, which apply's to any such system.

ps it is nice to see someone who thinks as wooly as playboy reporter.

If my old Apple II could simulate a real conversation (the Socrates program) with its puny 64k of memory, I believe that we could come very close to simulating a human personality with the processors that we have today. The brain is a very complex object, but what makes us human is a little more than a handful of gray matter slathered on top of the lizard brain. (Hmm... makes it sound like toast, doesn't it? This is your brain... this is your brain with strawberry jam!)

As for the reading list...
In my opinion, you can find a book to support any argument. Including the theory that the earth is flat, the moon is made of green cheese, and women are incapable of doing math. Truth is a slippery customer. We're better off reading as many dissenting opinions as we can assemble, and develop a world view from there.

Wow. It's like deja vu all over again.
Wow. It's like deja vu all over again.

(I could have sworn I read essentially the exact same batch of opinion about 800-900 postings ago...)

Lentilla,

Whenever I take God's name in vain -- I mean, Goud's name -- I mean, Doug's name... er... Whenever I claim what DNA would have wanted, I like to use direct quotes to back up my claims. For example, it's clear that DNA did not intend for h2g2 to have political censorship along the lines of the rules we saw during the UK General Election, or the current "guidelines during the Afghanistan Crisis." It's relatively incontrovertible when you read the "Welcome and Thank-You" message that DNA wrote on 08 September 1999 at http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/welcome-dna.

"You can create your own Guide Entries containing anything you want, from your opinions of world events to a description of your home town..."

Compare this with the policy enforced during the UK General Election at http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A533468. "Any Conversations or Guide Entries that veer into heavy debate about the General Election (or local elections during the General Election period) may be removed by the Moderators."

[Pointing out this discrepancy in a conversation thread on DNA's welcome page will get you an Official Warning.]

As for whether DNA really disapproved of anything at h2g2, it's doubtful he would have interfered in things here after he sold it to BBC. Duncan "Spearcarrier" Jones and I posted some questions to the message fora on douglasadams (DNA's personal/professional website) asking how he felt about the BBC's restrictions at h2g2, just a few months before DNA passed away. There was no response, although he clearly read and responded to postings there every week or two.

I just noticed that "Clay_Toy" rhymes with Play_boy. Isn't it amazing that someone who has been at h2g2 only a week or two would take such interest in the LeKZ controversy, read the related conversation threads, and deliver such a 'withering attack?' Would care enough to even comment on it??? Especially when that person goes out of his way to address "recovered memories," a topic which LeKZ talks about extensively on her website, but which I don't remember ever seeing in her discussions on h2g2.

Maybe next week we'll see more of a concensus opinion form behind Clay_Toy, when new members Gray_Joy, Splay_coy, Pray_Poi and retropeR_yobyalP join h2g2 to strongly agree with Playboy, I mean Clay_Toy.

With your expert knowledge of repressed memories, you might be the ideal person to comment on my entry on the related subject of Satanic Cults, playboy :) http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/F48874?thread=153020&latest=1 Hope to see you there soon! -Lucinda (withered... ;-))