h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I am terribly sorry, sir, but I cannot agree with those who praised this Entry. Some of your definitions I was not aware of. For example, I was not aware of the fact that another definition of 'slash' was 'Fan fiction incorporating intimate/sexual encounters between characters who do not have, and never have had, such a relationship in the canon material'. That would, by implication, include het. Slash is not het. Nor does gen include het. Gan is short for general. General does not include romance.

"Given the purely sexual connotations of slash, the perceived suggestion is that homosexual relationships are inherently only about sex, and that a loving dimension is possible only in relationships between a man and a woman." I have problems with this sentence. I don't like it. "Given the purely sexual connotations of slash..." Since when is slash purely sexual? What if, in order to write a convincing slash story, one has to be sure that the slashed characters abstain from sex? Take the example of Sherlock Holmes. In order to write a factually accurate Holmes/Watson story, one has to keep in mind that homosexual sex was, in fact, illegal, and either disregard that or work around it. "...a loving dimension is possible only in relationships between a man and a woman." I realize you are saying this is only a perception,but I would like to prove it wrong anyway. It is made very clear in the Sherlock Holmes stories by Conan Doyle (the canon) that Holmes and Watson do love each other, although the reader is really supposed to think that they love each other like brothers. Also, take TOS. Kirk and Spock love each other, whether as brothers or in a slash relationship. Clearly, this perception is not the truth.

"Gen is also sometimes used to denote fanfics without sex." This is the actual definition, and it should say 'always'.

Look, I realize that there is a very great deal of absolutely awful fanfiction out there, and there are a great many atrocious writers, but you simply cannot make blanket statements, such as the implied statement that slash is all about sex, without offending a great deal of people. There is such thing as a G to PG-13 fanfiction archive, you know. There are adult writers who write excellent R and NC-17 fics who write equally good G to PG-13 fics. Don't make generalizations, check your facts, and it's likely not as many people will get mad.

Oh, about the subject line. I'm a slasher and some of your more unkind remarks have personally annoyed and insulted me.

I agree! Does the person who wrote this even write fanfic? I doubt it! There defineition of a Mary Sue, to be blunt, was wack. How can anyone say that all slash is bad? And the Anime being tentacal rape was just insulting to all good anime writers.

Ah, I am not criticizing, but to be taken seriously I would advise proofreading your posts. But, yes, their description of a Mary-Sue was very incomplete. I personally haven't read any anime fanfics, but they cannot all be tentacle rape, although the author did say in another thread that it was an example, if I remember correctly.

I will say again as I have said before, every definition in the article was valid as borne by the fanfic glossaries available at the time; the Mary-Sue definition was based on reading of copious numbers of well-written essays, one of which traced the MS back to pre-Victorian roots (I know it sounds like a cop out, but the references were on my old work computer if anywhere). Moreover, I stand by my statement that most slash is terrible. Sturgeon's Law: Most of everything is terrible and slash fiction is no exception. There is no reason for you to feel personally insulted unless you pollute the highways and byways of the net we call inter with ill-written boink-fest slash fiction. Given that you have written a pretty measured and reasonable reply, I'll go out on a limb and say that you probably don't.

By the definitions in the article, which I reiterate were arrived at after copious research of the available sources, slash is a far more sexually slanted term than ship. There were a number of essays of the time which considered the convergence of the gay/het and sex/romance usages to be of concern.

I found several anime fanfic glossaires which had specific terms for tentacle rape fiction. I think one of them may actually have had more than one term for different kinds of tentacle rap fiction. I ran and hid. I remain convinced that the un-edited article was more clear that this was a preemptive retreat rather than one based on extensive surveys.

As to the issue of authorship, I've written a total of 60 fanfics, most of them between 20,000 and 30,000 words long, but a few much shorter. In total, that's probably about a million words of fanfic, although most of it after writing the article. At time of writing I was somewhere at the beginnings of my first fic ever.

Ah. Would it be possible to put a disclaimer to the effect of 'the definitions in this article may be somewhat out of date, please do not flame me'?

I have read an article that traced MSes to pre-Victorian roots. Might it be this one? http://www.merrycoz.org/papers/MARYSUE.HTM That's the article I recall. Oh, um... when did I say something about MSes? I forgot... Oh, yeah, that your definition was incomplete. I did go back and read it... I just confused myself.

The other person, who posted after me, OTOH, could use some literacy lessons.

Okay, you're right about slash, I've just been spoiled by hanging out with the right people. Turns out, we (the slashers I talk to and I) have better editors than my newspaper half the time. I have, however, seen badly written fic which it hurt my head to read. So, though I hate to admit defeat, you're mostly right. I just don't like blanket statements. And a lot of people would rather write smutty PWPs than craft a convincing slash story.

Still not saying anything about anime fanfic... Remembering you said in another thread that it was used as an example...

I think... somewhere at the beginning of your first fic ever is not a very good time to write an essay on fanfiction. *pot calling kettle black.. oh well*

I believe this is a record for me, and maybe hootoo - a complete turnaround from yelling to (mostly) agreeing in only *checks* 5 posts total, one from the person being yelled at. Truth, I'm a bit more annoyed at 'invisiblecathyo4' than at you by now. I'm easily annoyed by lazy posters.(people, not pictures)

Perhaps editing is not such a wonderful thing as many people seem to think. When I have someone edit my work, we usually send a few messages back and forth, and I change what I want to change. I don't know how it works on hootoo.

Oh, btw, maybe check out my Entry on slash? A2767719 Written after finishing 0 fanfics, starting a few, and reading more than could possibly be good for me. And a good deal of research. Mostly stuff I had looked up before, out of curiosity. As soon as hootoo lets a friend slasher join, I'm going to let her help... If she wants to, that is. Sorry, babbling.

, because I hope I have found a new friend.

if I may jump in here?

It's not "defeat" it is that you have read what Mr.Prophet had to say, researched yourself, and come to a conclusion.



That's what it's all about, isn't it?

In any case. I'm one of the people who helped a wee bit with the original entry, and while I'm sure it could use a bit of updating, mostly I agree that it stands well as it is.

Btw: I'm a Lady Writer (and Reader) of Slash so I do feel qualified to talk about it (although I don't read in a wide range of fandoms, I've covered about ten, so I think that's enough)

My own feeling is that the original meaning of slash (well covered elsewhere on the net) has been bent more than slightly to encompass what can seem to be an almost endless stream of... frankly, pap, which is interspersed with a few jolly good reads.

Recently I've come to the conclusion that to call something "gen" can be a little misleading. Since there is very rarely agreement in any fandom (that I've seen, and I can talk specifically about one) about what actually is canon - and many find "canon" and "gen" to be almost indistinguishable.

I'll out myself now: I watch Stargate and that's the fandom I'm most involved in.

There is a good argument put by some of the less rabid shippers that a certain amount of ship is "canon" due to what has happened over a period of years and in some eps specifically. There are others however, and I number myself among them, who consider that the ship we see on the tv is largly projection by the shippers (rabid or not) and that it is open to interpretation (even though some of the Stargate PTB are obviously shippers too). So now the question could be: what is ship and what is gen (canon)? Is a fic a ship fic, even though the relationship is plain to see on the screen by all? Or is a fic a ship fic because 50% of the viewers see it on the screen? Where do we draw the line?

stay with me, I do have a point somewhere...

There are very very few shows that show an openly gay relationship. However, there are some (not so rabid) slashers in some fandoms (and I'd say I'm one in the Stargate world) who say that in some eps the relationship between two of the male characters is as overt as what the shippers see between two of the others. So, if you write a slashfic, which is no more overtly slashy than what we think we see on screen - is it slash or gen(canon)?

Gawd, the mind is wondering (partly because I'm writing some fics that I can't resolve).

Anyhoo... I just wanted to pop in and say hi.
And I'll look at your slash thing when I get more than 5 minutes to myself.

Thankees.

Yay, a slasher! I needs suggestions and maybe a little help with my thing on slash, maybe.

Like I said, I've been spoiled when it comes to reading slash.

I have never watched an entire ep of Stargate. My fandoms are Star Trek, Sherlock Holmes, and Good Omens - one TV show and two book-type-things.

Well, if you look long enough, you can probably see slashy or 'shippy' undertones in almost anything.

There are shows that show an openly gay relationship? This I did not know.

I'd say that one can see slashiness in Star Trek (TOS) between Kirk and Spock, and I'm not /too/ rabid...

Hi. Thankees.

if you like to read slashfic... have you given the Mag7 stuff a look?

7 guys. Cowboy types.

A slasher's heaven.

(sorry, Mr.Prophet, I can't help myself sometimes)

Mag7?

The Magnificent Seven was a "western" show only shown in the States (and possibly Canada) as far as I can tell. A friend of mine watched, then read the fic to get her fix.

It's truly a slasher's paradise: a whole show about 7 guys and (apparently) very few women. The leader of the 7 has a sad past (saw his wife and son die, I can't remember how at this stage)

The online fandom is pretty active and inventive. Someone decided that they'd like to bring the Mag7 into the modern world, and they now have a whole non-canon universe with the guys being ATF officers (instead of a sherriff and deputies in a mid-western town full of bandits). It works extraordinarily well, and I've wasted many an hour reading some extrememly well written fic. Slash and non-slash.

Never heard of it. Will have to check out.

http://www.blackraptor.net/m7fic/index.htm

There's a pretty comprehensive Mag7 fic archive for you
all sorts, Canon, ATF, crossover (with everything from CSI to Star Trek: Voyager), Slash, Gen, ship and what have you

Be careful, it will suck you in...

And while we're all here talking about fic:

Another fandom I read fic in way before I saw the show was The Sentinel. Having read fic I liked the idea of the show, and looked forward to seeing it. 3 or 4 eps in I wish I hadn't bothered...

Never seen it, but I have heard of it.

Thanks for the link.

I heartily second this. Of all the fandoms I've ever followed, this one seems to have the highest percentage of high-quality writers. You won't find much immature fangirl-type dreck here. It's an unusual fandom, too, because of all the AUs it has. They all mostly work, too. Most of my own writings have been in the ATF Universe - all gen, though. I can't write het or slash, sex scenes or not

For slash, I highly recommend the writers Katherine and Cobalt. There are probably others just as good, but I only read one particular pairing (V/E) and these two excel at writing it.

For Gen, there are a lot of excellent authors. Some of my favorites: NotTasha, Tipper, KellyA, HeatherF, Beth... there are lots of good ones.

I got sucked into this fandom by way of a crossover with The Sentinel and it was truly addictive.

Enjoy!

Violette

Oh I love NotTasha, I'll have to try some of the others too. I have largely given up reading/writing fic, but the Mag7 stuff does sort of suck you in and not let you away easily

The ATF AU stuff is truly fantastic, what a great idea. And of course, lends itself well to crossovers (Sentinel and SG-1 in particular) which I would normally avoid - but these are usually pretty well put together.