h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Growing up in one country, but learning two cultures is an enrichment. It does however, still give some problems about identity, mostly with the culture of the country that you do not live in.

Even when both cultures are pretty similar, the way people grow up, still differs. Language, literature, music, sport, politics, etc, for most people seem to need exact connection, shared experience, not just similar experience. So knowing just part of the culture doesn't really make you native.

The good part of the deal is of course that you can see things from a fresh viewpoint. What may be blindingly obvious to an outsider can be very much hidden to the insider. The trick is to recognize those opportunities, and use your knowledge of the culture to exploit them.

Greetings Kettu!

I regocnize your problem alright...

Hi Titania

So, what's it like being a Finnjävel in Sweden

Well, mostly people aren't aware about it, until they spot my last name (Rautiainen), because I was born and grew up in Sweden, and I haven't got a trace of Finnish accent (but I have been accused of having a Swedish accent when speaking Finnish)!

But I feel that it mixes my personality up a bit - I don't know which way to go...

My Dutch accent tends to be mistaken for Swedish or Estonian (by Swedish speaking Finns).

A few years ago I worked for a Swedish owned firm. The main difference that I noticed was that the Swedes were a bit opener then the Finns. On the other hand, the Swedes spent way too much time in meetings .

When I compare Finns with Dutch people I'd say Dutch people are more social, but also tougher (particularly in business).

Yes, my impression is also that Finns are more quite than Swedes, who aren't all that talkative either, until you get to know them... but I feel that I have more use of my Finnish side when dancing Flamenco.

Finns seem to be more in contact with their darker feelings, just listen to the tango texts - rather similar with Flamenco song texts - broken heart... hopeless love...

And it seems more accepted to be a gloomy Finn than a gloomy Swede - I think Swedes are more 'stiff upper lipp'-ish..

Ah yes, gloomy Finns. That's definitely true, I think it is probably caused by a combination of genes and the climate as during the summer everybody seems quite happy, but winters are depressing. Also, when traveling with a group of Finns I often have the impression that I'm in a Kaurismäki film, which are pretty gloomy (but then again, also funny).

Finnish tango is interesting in that it's very introvert compared to Argentinian tango and Flamenco. Though the tango texts express a lot of emotion, it's very rare for a (sober) Finn to express that much feeling (except gloom). It seems that Finns keep their feelings inside, until they burst, and when that finally happens you'd better get out of the way.

Interesting you should say that about keeping feelings inside until they burst - I recognize that in myself - at least until I started dancing Flamenco...

Flamenco has taught me to identify and concentrate my dark feelings, learning to control them (I call it The Beast).

I keep the Beast on leash, letting it hint in my Flamenco Dance, but still under control - a bit like dancing on the edge of a vulcano...

Whenever I'm provoked or threatened, I show them my Beast, and they always take a step back, leaving me alone. I guess they can see it in my eyes. Haven't had to unleash it yet...

Several years ago, when I couldn't control the Beast, it would attack them, making them not only step back, but turn around and run for their life...

Enough about me - what characterizes the Dutch people, besides being social?

Sorry to butt in - do carry on with your conversation. But my I add on this subject that it is something I have worried about for nearly 20 years as I have brought my children up with dual culture/language/nationality and have read a lot on the subject. It can well lead to identity crises and I hope I am avoiding that by creating roots for my children exactly here where we live, but opening all sides of both cultures to them. They certainly have an identity with both nations but, so far, I think I have been successful in keeping them stable. I once read an article by a half-Greek half-English person who really went through a crisis somewhere in their mid-twenties, which made me most aware of this.

The time where this shows up most, I expect, is when you have children yourselves. Your personality, although you attribute it to your national traits (whatever they may be, Finnish, Swedish, Dutch, etc) is basically, your own personality. Do you really think you have both inside you? I find this very interesting. Because this is probably, really, what defines you as a Swede or a Finn or a German - not the bit of paper in your wallet. This is the bit you have to pass on to your children.

It is much harder to explain to a child that when in one country you have to push and shove and when in the other country you wait your turn than to explain simple administrative things like for example needing a visa for this or that, depending upon which nationality you happen to use.

All in all, though, I embrace any form of making children aware of the fact that there are other peoples out there, using other languages and currencies, with other rhythms in their music, who have to put up with war threatening to break out on their doorstep.

There is lots to say on this subject and I have also asked my son to contribute on H2G2 - hope he gets round to it some time!

Hi Trillian's child!

Well, I haven't exactly had an identity crisis - yet - and I'm 36 years old...

But I wasn't really aware of the differences between Finns and Swedes as a kid. It was as an adult that I felt different from the people around me - and that was a surprise!

I had always thought of myself as a Swede, but when experiencing Finnish music, culture, literature and people, I found an unexpected response inside of me...

Hi Trillian's child,

The first thing I'd like to say is that everybody experiences problems during their lives, and that you have to be very careful before blaming nationality for them.

That said, I do think that growing up with different cultures can give you some kind of compatibility problems. The most clear example for myself is that in Holland people used to describe me as somewhat reserved, whereas here in Finland they find me very open (once even 'intimidating', which I think tells more about Finns then about me).

My parents never really taught me how to behave per country, but rather how to behave. The resulting mixture sometimes causes awkward situations (e.g. Dutch people do not quite know how to react when upon entering their home you start taking of your shoes), but I have also benefitted greatly (by being a lot more entrepeneurial then the average Finn).

In the end what really counts is that you're a decent person (and for the time being, this gloomy Finn thinks that there are way too few of those ).

Hi Titania,

The problem with characterizing Dutch people, is that Holland is a very diverse country. There are many religions (both protestant and catholic), lots of different political parties, and due to former colonies also a lot of different cultures.

So I'll just go for the stereotype: Dutch people are social and tolerant. Of course they're also known for being greedy and not idly spending money. They are also businessmen, and in business they are quite tough, so don't make any vague deals, or you'll get skinned.

About the 'tolerance': Dutch 'tolerance' means just that, they will tolerate certain things, but it does not mean that they are in favour of those things. So, for example, don't interpret the tolerant policies toward drugs as approval of drugs. Dutch tolerance has many advantages, it has for example kept the catholics and the protestants from killing eachother.

I take it this is referring to the Swedish/Finnish aspects of Finland?
If so then I'd like to hear a bit more about this as nationality is a significant part of the dissertation I'm writing at uni right now. If you could post any reply in my own personal space that would be kiva. Cheers!

Am bookmarking this as I soon hope to write an entry on bilingual upbringings.

Then post here when you've started on it 'cause I'd like to read that.