A Conversation for The Stone of Destiny
Queen Elizabeth's Title
Gnomon - time to move on Started conversation Sep 28, 2000
Although the current Queen Elizabeth is the second queen of England to bear that name and the first queen of Scotland to do so, her title is Queen Elizabeth the Second of the United Kingdom. This annoys a lot of Scottish people, because the first Queen Elizabeth was never a queen of Scotland.
The present queen should be Queen Elizabeth the First of the United Kingdom, but showing a typically English bias, she chose to call herself "the Second". She's the monarch. She can call herself what she likes.
When Charles becomes king, will he choose the correct "King Charles the First" or will he take the wimp route and be "King Charles the Third"?
Queen Elizabeth's Title
Bluebottle Posted Sep 28, 2000
If you wanted to be fussy you could say why was King Edward I of England called King Edward I, when England had already been ruled by several Edwards in Saxon times, after England was united after the Viking conquest of the North... It's just one of those things.
Queen Elizabeth's Title
Zathras (Unofficial Custodian of H2G2 Room 101. ACE and holder of the BBC Pens) Posted Sep 28, 2000
Could you not argue that she is the 'second' in the United Kingdom since there has previously been a Queen Elizabeth in the United Kingdom (admittedly she only queened over a part of it).
Of course that would mean you'd need to add up the total numbers of English and Scottish monarchs of a given name when determining the number and that isn't done either.
Zathras
Queen Elizabeth's Title
MDS Posted Sep 28, 2000
Charles would never call himself Charles I. Not after what happened to the last one.
Queen Elizabeth's Title
The Rain Girl, Keeper of Storytelling Posted Sep 28, 2000
I heard he was thinking of calling himself by his middle name if/when he gets the throne because of the public's negative associations with the name 'Charles' when applied to kings. ( I don't know what it says about a king who's willing to change his name because of 'negative associations'!) Besides, I hope William's going to go next; the Queen'll probably hang on to the throne until way long enough after he comes of age.
Queen Elizabeth's Title
Walter of Colne Posted Sep 28, 2000
Changing names to avoid negative associations? the Royal family's name of Windsor is an example of just that - it was changed in or around the first World War because the original one was too german sounding. The Scots shouldn't have any problems with Charles the Third - the first two Charlies were kings of Scotland too, and indeed they were the son and grandson of a Scot.
Queen Elizabeth's Title
Maolmuire Posted Oct 5, 2000
Didn't the United Kingdom come into being with the Act of Union in 1802 (or thereabouts)? So Lizzy would be Elizabeth the First of the United Kingdom....
Queen Elizabeth's Title
Munchkin Posted Oct 18, 2000
The Act of Union was 1707 but the thrones had been united from 16humptytump when James Vi of Scotland became also the I of England. He was specifically called the VI and I, so those following ought to be as well. I think it fell into disuse with the two Charlies (a right pair of) as, indeed, they were the first in either nation to use that name. Of course this doesn't cover Wales or Ireland.
Queen Elizabeth's Title
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Oct 18, 2000
Ireland never had its own king, unless you count Brian Boru. Since all the kings and queens of England claimed rights over Ireland too (since about 1250), the question does not arise.
Queen Elizabeth's Title
Munchkin Posted Oct 18, 2000
True, but they also claimed Kingship of France and Scotland as well.
Oh yes, and the Royal Family were called Saxe-Coburg Gotha (from Prince Albert) before the 1914. Probably just as well that they changed it, it would never fit in a Sun headline.
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Queen Elizabeth's Title
- 1: Gnomon - time to move on (Sep 28, 2000)
- 2: Bluebottle (Sep 28, 2000)
- 3: Zathras (Unofficial Custodian of H2G2 Room 101. ACE and holder of the BBC Pens) (Sep 28, 2000)
- 4: MDS (Sep 28, 2000)
- 5: The Rain Girl, Keeper of Storytelling (Sep 28, 2000)
- 6: Walter of Colne (Sep 28, 2000)
- 7: Maolmuire (Oct 5, 2000)
- 8: Munchkin (Oct 18, 2000)
- 9: Gnomon - time to move on (Oct 18, 2000)
- 10: Munchkin (Oct 18, 2000)
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