A Conversation for Slayerville

Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Post 1

JonnyMaelstrom

I haven't been on this site in YEARS. I have no idea if anyone who used to post here still visits. But where else was I going to post about Joss Whedon's new direct-to-internet miniseries (for want of a better word), Dr Horrible's Sing-Along Blog than the place where I obsessed over every detail of Buffy Season 7 when I lived in Plymouth and had no friends who liked the
show? I suspect there's no-one there to read it, but that scarcely matters. It means I can ramble.
There are spoilers ahead. They're signposted.

Okay, first off, let's not give all the credit to Whedon. It is recognisably his work (especially with that ending), but for all the 'we-love-you-Joss-you-can-do-no-wrong' sycophancy out there on the web, it's worth remembering Zack and Jed Whedon also had a hand in the show's creation, as did Maurissa Tancharoen. All have worked in the industry before (she was in Michael Jackson's Moonwalker!)
Who wrote which song or line doesn't matter. They all deserve some credit. That's why you should sit through the credits at the movies. People worked hard. These are their names. Pay attention.

I loved this show. I loved the bug-eyed googles on Dr Horrible's forehead. I loved the idea of Bad Horse, the Thoroughbred of Sin and his terrible Death Whinny. I loved the songs, which wouldn't leave my head between episodes.

Most of all, I loved that at a time when you can scarcely move for superhero movies - and they've got down to the ones we laymen have never even heard of by now - someone has created a comicbook world where the villain is the everyman and the hero is the school bully. I was with Dr Horrible every step of the way as he stumbled tonguetied into his interactions with Penny, only to watch the truly insufferable Capt. Hammer swoop her away.

It's a bit like Buffy. My friends would not be surprised. As far as I am concerned, most things are a bit like Buffy. But I say that because (MINOR SPOILER) in the final act we see that until now, Capt. Hammer has never known physical pain. It's just not something he's had to learn to cope with.

So like Buffy (and I'm thinking of that moment in S7 when Anya points out that Buffy's abilities make her luckier, not better, than her friends) he hasn't earned his power and strength. He's a hero because he has the strength to save the day, but he hasn't, like Peter Parker/Spider-Man, had to learn about the great responsibility that comes with great power. He isn't the guy who falls down and gets back up again, because he has never fallen. How could he not be an awful, preening fool?

Dr Horrible - let's call him Billy - has tried and tried to earn power and respect and seems motivated by a genuine, if misguided, desire to make the status a bit more quo. He doesn't give up and is so completely human in his awkwardness, wanting to be evil, but horrified when Moist suggests killing a child or an old person as an easy way into the league.
MUCH BIGGER SPOILER THIS TIME. When he has the opportunity to use the death ray on Capt. Hammer, he hesitates and eggs himself on in song with -okay, I haven't memorised it or anything, but it's something like "Chin up, Billy buddy." So when it's come to the crunch, he's stopped to acknowledge his everyday human side, not his online persona as Doctor Horrible.
A villain should be without mercy, but he is not that man - he may become that man in time, but unless there's a sequel we will never know for sure.

BIGGEST SPOILER OF ALL COMING UP.
When Capt. Hammer has the death ray, he seems much less inclined to hesitate than Billy was, making him truly hateful and in some ways the villain of the piece. But who are we kidding? Billy brought the gun (death ray, whatever) to the party and we must lay the blame for Penny's death at his feet. It wasn't what he wanted to happen, but it was his doing nonetheless.

STILL SPOILING HERE
The very last line of the whole thing is sung by Billy into his webcam. I must go back and check but I'm sure it's the only time we see him blogging in his street clothes, not his Dr Horrible costume. Does that mean those recent scenes of the Doc's rise to power, suiting up and meeting the Horse, are only the wishful dreams of a lonely video logger? Is it him wishing he could go back to just being Billy, having Penny's death unhappen? Is it something else entirely? I don't know, and good on 'em for leaving it open. I like that we end on Billy rather than the Doc, though.

NO MORE SPOILERS
If I must gripe, it is to say that I found Penny a bit wet. That's a criticism of character, not of Felicia Day's performance. With her caring for the homeless (damn her!) and her sweet, pretty singing, she reminded me a bit too much of those cutesy American sitcom girls who smile all the time and bake cupcakes for a living.

I did like the episodic format, though. We've yet to see if web users can sit through anything longer than about ten minutes, especially with all that freezing and buffering (curiously, Act 3 was the only one that didn't keep stopping when I watched it) and this may or may not be the brave new world everyone keeps heralding.

After this, every man and his dog will be posting home-shot sitcom pilots on the web. Many of them will be awful. Few will know, as Whedon's team has learned over the years, to make something so low budget look so good. None of them will have the instant appeal that a "Joss Whedon project" creates, so where this leaves the average YouTubers remains to be seen.

When all's said and done, no matter how many people have logged on and watched, whether or not this enterprise is considered a success is all going to boil down to itunes and DVD sales.
When the TV networks wise up and start doing more direct-to-web TV (I believe Clark and Michael was CBS) it will boil down to advertising.
But for now, I am looking forward to seeing what happens next.

It scares me a little we might still just end up with a bunch of very slick Jerry Bruckheimer shows online. So TV might not change all that much after all, but if it doesn't change, the internet is where it won't be doing it.

Well if you're still reading, I'll be amazed. Leave a message if you're there. I'd like to see if anyone's still around.
Cheers, Jonny (oh, all right then, Tim)


Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Post 2

Otus Nycteus

Hello Jonny-oh-alright-then-Tim smiley - winkeye

Glad there's still a trail of digital breadcrumbs leading to this place - and that you've found it. smiley - smiley

Loved reading your stuff again, and I intend to reply ASAP, but I've been very busy this weekend (work, and watching a certain sing-along blog smiley - winkeye). Hope to find the time to do so soon, because Dr. Horrible was as thought-provoking as Buffy at its best. It was absolutely brilliant, IMO - apart perhaps from one predictable element (predictable for those of us who are familiar with Whedon's take on relationships and how they end, that is... smiley - erm).

Anyway, hope you'll visit here again. See you! smiley - smiley


Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Post 3

JonnyMaelstrom

Ah, so there is still life in the old Talk Buffy 'community' (it seems like that word gets used every time a bunch of nerds get together on the internet, so I'll use it here!)
I agree, Dr Horrible was very good indeed. I hope the DVD comes out soon because the itunes download won't have the promised extras (they're planning a commentary and a 'commentary!', which is to say a musical extravaganza of a commentary. I know which one I'll be listening to first).
I've been watching episodes of How I Met Your Mother recently and have become a big fan of Neil Patrick Harris, and thought he was great in this, too. It's (HIMYM, that is) a bit of a Friends rip-off, but it's a good one, at least as far as I've watched, and it's good to see Alyson Hannigan working. Not quite sure what's happened to the rest of the Scoobies (SMG seems to crop up in the odd horror film I don't want to see, though).
Anyway, I'm rambling again.
Talk later.


Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Post 4

Otus Nycteus

Hi Jonny

Wouldn't call it 'life', I'm afraid. Slayerville's truly a ghost town now... smiley - winkeye I'm still around, so is Honest Iago; and people like Bud White drop in occasionally. smiley - smiley

Read about the 'Commentary!' - sounds absolutely scrumptious. smiley - biggrin

Haven't seen much of HIMYM - a few of the earlier episodes. Problem is, I didn't think it was all that funny... smiley - erm But NPH is indeed a good actor - and a good singer, too.

Alright, let's see if I can write something slightly this side of coherent in reply to your first post. And anyone who hasn't seen 'Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog', beware. There will be spoilers. This is your only warning.




So, here we go.

Jonny, I agreed with most of what you wrote, except for three things.

1) I didn't think Penny was a bit wet. I'll go into that a little later.

2) I don't think Dr. Horrible is the one to blame for Penny's death - or at least, not the *only* one. He brought the weapon, yes, but Captain Hammer fired it *despite Billy trying to warn him*. It's one of the slightly illogical plot points, granted - the Captain's not very sensitive to signals from other people, but when he trains the death ray at the Doc, the Doc says "don't..." and the Captain clearly interprets this as a warning, not as pleading. He actually *says* so, but fires nevertheless.

Therefore, the Captain should bear most of the blame for Penny's death - but the Doctor's definitely culpable, too.

Then again, Penny's death was inevitable from a plot point of view... Which brings me to

3) The ending. I believe you are right about it being the only time we see the Doc blogging in his civvies, but I don't agree with you on what it signifies. Here's my smiley - 2cents on it:

I definitely don't think the Evil League of Evil scene was a Horrible phantasy or daydream, for three reasons: First, it'd be the *lamest* trick in the screen writer's book ("it was all a dream"), and I can't believe Joss et al would stoop to such lows. Secondly, we see two Horrible daydreams in the show, and they both do *not* fit within the narrative. We know the little dance in the laundromat never happened, and we know Dr. Horrible isn't a giant, stomping on the Captain. Meeting the ELE, however, *does* fit neatly within the narrative. And thirdly, if this was Billy's daydream, why wouldn't he hand himself *complete* victory? In other words, why wouldn't he let himself get the girl as well?

No, I think something else is going on, and I'd like to consider the personalities of the three protagonists for a moment before I get to the point. smiley - winkeye I believe all three are deeply insecure and, just like in a classic Greek tragedy, it's their flaws that drive them to their inevitable fate.

PENNY

We know how insecure she is from the moment we see her canvassing for signatures. (She's not too insecure to canvas anyway, though. There is strength in her.) Her insecurities would seem to stem from being fired a couple of times, and generally having had a rough time recently (consider her laundromat song in Act 2). However, by Act 3 she clearly has gained in confidence. Securing the building for her project was a major succes, and she's made some new friends (or at least thinks she has).

At the press conference, she leaves the podium in quiet protest at Hammer's public indiscretions about their relationship. I feel that she might not have done that if she *hadn't* gained in confidence, because leaving the podium would mean atracting even more attention to herself. But of course, if she had stayed in her seat, she might still be alive...

CAPTAIN HAMMER

His insecurities are less obvious than Penny's, but run much deeper. The first clue about them is a remark most people found hilarious, "The hammer is my penis" in Act 2. At first I actually found the remark annoying - not because it wasn't funny, but because I felt it was superfluous. What "the hammer" was, was already clear from his earlier remark, when he holds up his fists and tells Dr. Horrible "These are not the hammer". And of course, anyone who knows anything about Freudian imagery already suspected as much the moment they heard his superhero name. smiley - winkeye

But then I realised that the Captain just *had* to say it - he needed to be absolutely sure Dr. Horrible got the point. And that was an indication for a deep-seated insecurity about his sexuality, or at least his sexual prowess. This was confirmed in Act 3, when he told us he had never slept with the same girl twice. Oh dear...

That's not surprising, of course - he's extremely self-obsessed and insensitive. (Would that last bit have anything to do with his inability to feel *pain*?) But if his treatment of Penny during the press conference (another sign of his insecurity - the need to let the world know he *does* have sexual prowess) is any indication of how he treated other women, it's no wonder they didn't want second helpings of him...

DOCTOR HORRIBLE

As with Penny, Billy's insecurities are obvious from the get-go: He's too shy to talk to women he finds attractive, and he feels underrated and bullied - in other words, just like the Captain, he has an inferiority complex, only for different reasons. And it's these two partly conflicting flaws that set him upon his fateful path.

In the Freeze Ray song (Act 1) he tells us he made the freeze ray "to find the time to find the words to tell you [Penny] how you make me feel" and to "stop the pain". But he also wants to use it to become "an achiever, like Bad Horse" - and he thinks *that* will help him in wooing Penny.

And so, he sets out to steal the wonderflonium, and gets accosted by Penny to sign her petition. It's the crucial moment in the story. If he forgets the heist and focusses on Penny, who knows where that might have led the two of them? A happily ever after? But no, he also wants to be a succes, a supervillain - so "a man has to do what a man has to do". He tries to pull the heist and the wheels of the tragedy are set in motion, inevitably.

Well, *almost* inevitably. There were two more moments where he could have changed the course of fate - if only he had had some more psychological insight, or had been less obsessed with becoming a success and beating Hammer. In Act 2 Penny tells him about her past, which ends with her stroking his face. There was a suggestion they could have kissed at that point - and a more insightful or experienced person than Billy might have concluded he still had a chance with her, despite her being with the Captain. The same is true for the press conference. He must've seen her reaction at Hammer's boasting, but he was too obsessed by now with his plan (and his hatred of the Captain) *not* to follow it through to the bitter end - an end that was made extra bitter because she died with Captain Hammer's name on her lips...

One short aside: When the Doc sings "chin up, Billy-buddy" as he aims the death ray at Hammer, the camera cuts away to Penny looking on from behind a chair, and we see her mouth "Billy-buddy?"

So, what has all this to do with the ending? Well, I think the pain of Penny's death was too much to bear for Billy, so he - metaphorically - did what he refered to in the Freeze Ray song: he stopped the pain by 'freezing' his emotions. And *that's* what the last image signifies, IMO: There's no difference anymore between Billy and Doctor Horrible. They're now one and the same - and evil. The trauma has cost him his humanity.

Ironically, of course, Captain Hammer may have *gained* some humanity because of *his* trauma...

***

Anyway, hope you found the time to read all that, Jonny. smiley - winkeye Looking forward to your reaction - and/or anyone else's. smiley - smiley


Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Post 5

HonestIago

I'm still around here quite a lot, and I think Xander is still around, calling himself semper paratus. But there hasn't been much in the way of talking with fellow Whedonites, which is a shame.

I'm really disappointed I missed the blog, but the first I'd heard of it was a few days before it got taken down, and I was on my way to Cornwall where I was internet-less. I'll probably pick up the DVDs when they come out.


Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Post 6

HonestIago

Oh, and as for other Buffy stalwarts, the work Jane Espenson (easily the best Buffy script writer after Joss) has been doing on the ressurected Battlestar Galactica has been fantastic.

The problem I have with How I Met Yoir Mother is that it's on in the graveyard slot and I just don't have the patience or inclination to watch somethign that's on that late, especially when it moves around a lot. I've seen a couple of episodes and I really like it, so I might just have to take the Arrested Development route and but the dvds


Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Post 7

Otus Nycteus

Hi Iago. Dr. Horrible hasn't entirely left the web. There's YouTube, of course, but this may be your best bet. Enjoy! smiley - smiley

http://www.whedontube.com/watch/playlist/JWJCD8SXV8Q1R47K


Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Post 8

Carlyle Ferris

I was a bit miffed by the hype accorded to Joss Whedon for Doctor Horrible. A lot of commentators implied that he had invented the web series...........I don't know if many of us saw "The Guild" web series on YouTube. It was written by,and starred, Felicia Day and was created on a budget financed by the sale of bootlaces I would imagine. It was sharp and funny and "Codex" The Felicia character was adorable. So whilst I bow and scrape and doff and touch my forelock to Joss Whedon I can't quite bring myself to crown him king of the web creators.

Carlyle Ferris


Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Post 9

Otus Nycteus

Hi Doc. Glad you found your way back here. smiley - smiley

Haven't seen "The Guild", but you've got a point. JW was hardly the first to do a web series - but did he claim to be? If he didn't, why let the hype detract from enjoying Doctor Horrible? Hype? Schmype! Water off a duck's back... smiley - winkeye


Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Post 10

Carlyle Ferris

Hi y'a'll, returning for my biannual fix on a wet and widy day in France.......ouch! just been given the "are you helping with dinner" speech. See you in April


Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Post 11

oldramon

Hey all

I suddenly had an urge to visit here for ald time's sake, so hello to anyone who reads this. I hope you are doing well.

I haven't seen 'Dr Horrible' and only know scant details about it. I am vaguely looking forward to 'Dollhouse', with some reservations. I saw a couple of clips that did not impress, but I still hold out hope.

I must admit to have lost interest in Joss Whedon's work to some degree, although my love of 'Buffy' remains undiminished.


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