h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I have white hair. No one is going to call me a kid unless they have white hair, too. So I expect to be called "Sir." There are people in the world have have serious problems, but being called Sir isn't one of them.

It can get a bit trickier when you're trying to figure out what to call women if you are required to send them letters. The rule of thumb that I use is to address them by their full names. This avoids calling a married woman "Miss" or a single one "Mrs."

I remember my French teacher at middle school bemoaning the first time she'd been addressed as "Madame" in France (as opposed to Mademoiselle). She wasn't married...

No-one's ever called me Sir. I feel quite left out!

I think in France it is now the rule that all women are called "Madame" in the same way that in Germany every woman is addressed as "Frau". You certainly won't find the option "Fräulein" on any form which you fill in. There is no equivalent in present day parlance for Sir or Madam in German. I would say that that's a non-monarchical society for you, but, of course, Madame and Monsieur are common in France, so that theory doesn't hold water.

So - what do the Germans do, if they want to address someone politely, but don't want to keep repeating (or don't remember) the person's name? Either you just say "you" - not as a form of address at the end of the sentence, though, of course. That would be rude.

Or you can use the third person - but that is reeelly rather affected.

Or you can do what cold callers (which we don't get so many of as in the UK, it would seem) do - and just keep repeating the name. Which really palls.

In American and British films, which are always dubbed into German, the "Sir" and "Madam" is never translated - it is just left as Sir or Madam. I don't know how much the average German can comprehend all the nuances and implications of this.

When I am on English-speaking soil, I accept that I will be addressed as Madam, but this doesn't happen very often.

I don't visit any sites that are likely to start calling me by my Christian name except those which are practically unavoidable, such as my e-mail provider and amazon. Even my new Kindle, come to think of it, relates to me by my first name. But if it said "Madam's Kindle" in the top left corner would be a bit disconcerting!

Being from Fife, "Sir" can often be an indication that an argument or a smack in the mouth is coming up. Hard to explain really. Usage includes:

Hey sir, did you spill my pint?

But it's also a part of an exclamatory phrase:

Shahoorsir, that was a good goal!

Awwwww Bea! I'll call you Sir from now on, then.

when facebook introduced there new level of friendliness my first reaction wasn't happy...
I shuddered turned to joe and told him ho frankly creepy i found it

Five minutes out of work, and I've just been Sirred. What madness is this? Am I getting 'Sir's that the rest of you should be getting? I'm feeling like I'm being greedy, now - taking more than my fair share!

I've not been called 'sir' today, but I was called 'Madam', I was called a few other things too, but non of them are that repeatible in polite company. Mind, this is hardly polite company, Master B is probably about somewhere.

We do need more formal technology. I feel that Stephen Fry alarm clock was a step in the right direction.

I quite like being called sir when it's appropriate. I could insist on Dr if I wished, but really it's not worth it and I don't care anyway.
It's quite amusing sometimes talking to staff at Npower or someother utility company when they see that in my title and suddenly start getting all apologetic or they pause before they do it, having been just about to say sir. Meh - I didn't do a doctorate to get special treatment from companies.
I did once get a hotel receptionist question my credentials though, that was really more annoying than I expected. Apparently they do get people who fake titles to get special treatment (re: Fawlty towers... Lord Melbury is it? ). I don't really expect to bring along my degree certificates to demonstrate my credentials when I stay at hotels and the staff won't get a very good reception if they do question it.

an alarm clock? Horrid modern new fangled gizzmotechnological gimikary.....

Nothing wrong with the tried and tested, just get the man-servent to come and wake you up at the allotted time, never fails, or, at least, if it does, you can sack him, flog him, or just shoot him the next time your out in your grounds.

Something's been nagging away at the back of my mind during this conversation and the penny just dropped It's Farr's Law of Mean Familiarity. Goes like this (updated for modern times).

The managing director calls:
COO Michael Yates - Mike
Regional manager Michael Yates - Michael
Store manager Michael Yates - Mr Yates
Sales assistant Michael Yates - Yates
Indispensable secretary Michael Yates - Mr Yates
Apprentice Michael Yates - Michael
Nightwatchman Michael Yates - Mike

Hi TC

My I ask a embarrassing question? (I guess that is one of the functions of h2g2).

>...in the same way that in Germany every woman is addressed as "Frau". You certainly won't find the option "Fräulein" on any form which you fill in.

I remember watching a show on TV that was supposed to be teaching the German Language. It was many years ago, I think Jack Kennedy was still President at the time.

The instructor (I believe he was an American) said he always avoided using the term 'Frau' as it was of neutral gender. As I recall he used an example like 'The cat is cleaning her paws, but my wife (Frau) is in the kitchen cooking its supper'.

I do not know more than a dozen or so German words, and I certainly would never try to communicate in it. Reading your post brought this back to mind, and I would love to see the view of a native speaker.



For the rest, I had a very good friend who was born in a small town in North Carolina. His name was Billy. For real - the name on his birth certificate said 'Billy'. Every year at the start of school every teacher would insist on calling him 'William', as you must learn to use your proper name! He finally started carrying a copy of his birth certificate to show them. It worked for a few



FS

Hi FS. "Frau" is the feminine form, "Fräulein" - as are all diminuitives - is neutral. (Die Frau, Das Fräulein)

The problem with the sentence you quote is that BOTH subjects are feminine, so when you say "cooking its supper" - it could sound in German as though the wife is cooking the cat's supper, OR cooking her own supper. Which problem you would also create in English if you called the cat "she". Then it would be "cooking HER supper", and it is not clear whose supper it is. In German, eine Katze is ALWAYS feminine, as is "eine Rose" - a rose - or even "eine Hose" - a pair of trousers.

I am not a native speaker, but, as I am usually quick to remind people, I have been speaking German longer than many of my acquaintances and workmates here, even if they are natives. Having worked as a secretary, I have to be sure of my German, and keep it correct to the last letter (last letters being particularly important in German, as they determine which part of the sentence is the subject, and which is the object)

So - where do I get a Stephen Fry alarm clock? And does he address me as "Sir" or "Madam"?

Thank you for the reply TC

As I said I have never studied German, however my older brother did. That was probably why I saw the show. It's just one of those little things that for some reason get stuck in your head. When I saw your post it brought it back to me. The instructor was probably just a bigoted ugly american who saw a chance to put in a dig. I was only about 10 at the time and didn't know any better. Thanks.

>I am not a native speaker, but...

Excuse my for assuming, as an American I am not used to people moving from country to country, only state to state. They all, at least nominally, speak the same language. I will place Dmitri in the special place he deserves.

When it came time for me to chose a language to study I picked Spanish, as it is a lot more useful in these parts.

F S

On the radio recently, a Brazilian scientist was speaking. His English was very very good, the pronunciation, the colloquialisms. So I don't think it was a mistake when he said what sounded like "Technolodge" - a clever mixture of Tech and Knowledge.

Tech-knowledge.

The company that made the Stephen Fry alarm clock was called Voco. The website ThinkGeek sold them for a while.