h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Does anyone else feel like starting a conversation on this one?
Did you find Chaucer easy to understand? (for example)

Fairly easy to understand once you got to grips with it (good translation useful here ) but a bugger to pronounce properly ( we had to read passages aloud!)

Stories were amazingly crude and brilliant for it!

I had an English Literature professor at the University of Michigan (his name was Hugh English, if I remember correctly, and was actually one of the editors of the Norton Anthology of English Literature) who spoke fluent Middle English. Honest! (He could also recite every one of Shakespeare's sonnets by number, but that's a different story.)
It was very interesting to hear. We read The Canterbury Tales in that class, which focused on literature written up to 1600 AD - and yes, I did find it difficult... but like anything written in an unfamiliar language or style (like Shakespeare, Kerouak, Mark Twain, even John Barth), once you immerse yourself in it, it becomes easier to understand.
It's not unlike listening to those with an unusual accent.

Hi!

When I mentioned Middle English over in the British English thread, it was because I'm trying to check some food-related words.

More precisely, it's the coronation feast of the young Henry VI. They had quite a substantial three-course meal. Not you average Sunday lunch. I listened to the menu on a tape, and there some bits I couldn't find in my dictionary:

'Leech' (or 'leach', or 'leche'), as in "a red leech of sliced meats", "white leech with an antelope of red carved therein", "leech of three colours".

'Flampain' - at least, that's how it sounded - as in "flampain powdered with leopards and fleur-de-lys of gold".

'Bland surrey' - maybe my ears need cleaning - as in "bland surrey powdered with gilt quatrefoils" (could it have been 'sorrel'?).

Gooday Kaeori,

What a fascinating thread. Can't help with your questions - yet - but have chucked them at the medievalists at uni to see if they can offer anything. Which coronation was it, as king of England or king of France? The 'flampain' with fleur-de-lys hints at his claim to the French throne. I think he may have even had a third 'coronation' at his readeption in 1470. Take care,

Walter.

Food again, eh, Kaeori?

"Flampayn ... Flampoint" - pie or tart ornamented with pointed pieces of pastry.
"Leach ..." to cut (meat etc) in slices.
"Leche ..." South African water buck
"Bland Surrey" H'mm Loads of stuff on sorrel in cookery, stressing "sour" taste - so Bland might be nicer. No surrey - sorry.

Walter of Colne:

I thought in those days (and for many years to come), the Kings and Queens of England also claimed title to the throne of France. I'm fairly sure this feast was for Henry VI's coronation as King of England - at the tender age of 9, perhaps.

plaguesville:

2 out of 3 ain't bad - thanks! And don't worry, I'm not going to attempt to reproduce this menu. Perhaps you'd like to take a look at the first of the three courses:

- A frumentee with venison
- Meat royale planted with lozenges of gold
- Boar's head in castles armed with gold
- Beef, mutton, cygnet, stewed capon, heron, great pike
- A red leach of sliced meats, eggs, fruits and spices with lions carved therein in white
- Custard royale with a leopard of gold sitting therein
- fritter like a sun with a fleur-de-lys therein

That, of course, was the starters!

Gooday Kaeori,

Yes you are quite right, the kings of England of that era did claim kingship of France. Henry VI was a bit different in that he was actually crowned king of France, although it was a ceremony arranged by the English in a vain attempt to stem the tide of the Dauphin and Joan of Arc. Henry was deposed by Edward IV in 1461, but in 1470 regained (briefly) his crown; as I said earlier, I think he may have been 're-crowned' king of England at that time, so he may have had three coronations all told. I wonder if the food looked as good as it sounds! Take care,

Walter.

Assuming I've whetted your appetite, you'll be ready to move on...

- Meat, blanched, barred with gold
- Jelly divided by the writing and musical notation Te Deum Laudaumus
- pig gilded
- white leach with an antelope of red carved therein, a crown about his neck with a chain of gold
- flampayn powdered with leopards and fleur-de-lys of gold
- fritters
- a leopard's head with two ostrich feathers

Don't forget to leave a little room for the third and final course!

Which was?

Has anyone heard of the alleged middle english pronoun 'hir'? What did it mean?

Just researching for A753833 - Gender Free Pronouns, and spotted this thread.

The Concise O.E.D. has.
"Hir (obsolete) Midlle English form of HER (pronoun)"

So.... not as previously used on this site by persons of fond memory.

That's what I've read elsewhere, but it's nice to have it confirmed. Cheers

("previously"? There are some survivors who still use it... )

Verily, I say unto you:
"Like the poor they are always with us."