h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I think a lot of what makes things feel a little (whats the word) forced(?) is the permenance of the threads....everything posted (unless moderated) is there for good and wont go away or be forgotten and if you contradict yourself there's no way to argue your way through - it's all there in black and white (or whatever colour the skin is) on the screen.

If there was some big dictaphone in the sky that recorded everything we said and made it accessable to anyone with an interest I think people would think a little harder about what they said (and we would all be nice smiley people). Whether thats good or bad is debateable. The eggshells are useful in some ways (I used to muck about on yahoo chat and the amount of contradictory, unfounded, made up statments used to back up an argument was pathetic...one of the main reasons I left) in that everyone does tend to think a little bit more before clicking the post button...but you're right we lose some of the spontenaity because of that

I wish there was a simple answer...if you find yourself editing too much then don't do it...better to p*ss a few people off accidentally and apologise than feel that your pretending to be someone you're not

Oh and for all the smileys

The problem is of course that you can't communicate tone of voice, expression or body language in a written medium, and the s are a poor substitute. I've found that I've been misunderstood, and I've also misunderstood or overreacted to other peoples posts and I do indulge in self-censorship. It's also easy to get carried away with a thread that's got a certain momentum going and a rapport between a group (clique, even?) of researchers, and not realise that you're alienating others who don't get the joke or haven't read the whole thing.

Personally I tend to restrict my use of smileys to and which usually goes down ok with most!

I feel guilty for giving offence.I can't help it and try as I may I just can't give way and start causing offence for the sake of it.However since I started surfing the net I've found how extraordinarily easy it is to cause offence.

It's so easy to annoy.All you have to do is spell a word badly,use the wrong grammar,a word incorrectly and all hell can be let loose.Also even with attention to all this,poor punctuation can ruin the meaning of a sentence and someone is going to be upset.

I've even inadvertently started a flame war by stating that in my opinion Heinlein is a cr..errr....poor writer.

However if we all walk about on eggshells then nothing would ever be said and the world would never get sorted.

Incog.

Another rant. Slight topic drift, too...

Something's just occurred to me:

More evidence of this false 'niceness' on h2g2 is the fact that slanging matches between 2 researchers end up attracting a crowd. Just look at the recent spat between Hoovooloo and Tango - everyone loved to watch it (including me) and many got involved in it. That particular journal entry had more subscribers than the most popular conversation on Askh2g2. I know this happens in real life but at least people are a bit more honest about it. It was stirred up so much by other people there were 4 pages of backlog before the first reply came from Hoovooloo. The community was frothing at the mouth for a fight. How is this a 'nice' community if so many people are so ready to bay for blood like that? And then its all back to smilies and polite conversation the next minute. I find it all so false.

I realise that the above doesn't apply to everyone, but there is a significant number of people to which it does.

Anyway, that's enough ranting from me.

The phenomenon you describe is so common on this site that it was given a term to describe it once... "synchronized jumping session."

I think it stems from the protectiveness of the somewhat unique nature of this site. We're given authority to self-police, just like we had back in the pre-Beeb days. So when an issue gets out of hand, everyone starts inviting everyone into the fray, and people choose sides, and it actually gets worse than it ever should have been.

This coming from someone who used to participate in this sort of nonsense... personally, I think it's hubris. We all think we can be the impartial judge, and dispense justice, right the wrong, blah, blah, blah. You get 50 judges trying to hand down ill-conceived impressions of the incident, all haranguing each other and making the original combatants feel even worse.

Now I'm a mugwump. I don't get involved. I support my friends, and I help regulate my club, but I don't go seeking conflict. I can generate enough of that on my own.

******

As for the original topic in this thread... I do it. Anytime I'm involved in a debate, I pour over what I'm going to say, and I google for facts to back me up before I ever start. I'm not fond of the feeling when I publish nonsense on here and someone catches me on it immediately.

As for offense... I certainly cause more offense here than I cause in real life. One reason is that nobody can read my body language to tell when I'm being silly. Another is that I tend to discuss more controversial issues than I would in real life. For instance, with all the fun I have in the FFFF, I almost never engage the fundy at work in religious discussion... and she spouts nonsense on an hourly basis. I think the internet grants me a bit of freedom to discuss things that are difficult to discuss face-to-face with people you have to avoid offending.

If I offend people here, they won't slash my tires.

And there is absolutely nothing more tiresome than people who use smileys as pictograms. Haven't we evolved beyond hieroglyphic language? The very sight of a post like that makes me nauseous.

And can anyone tell me what purpose is achieved by offering food and drink icons to each other? Because I just don't get it.

I think using the smileys can add another dimension to text, though I'm not interested in the smiley conga threads. This lil fella is much more efficient than typing ..."leaves me scratching my head in utter bewilderment." And this one , well you just have to look at his face to get the idea. I *do* that face on a regular basis, but I'd hate to have to describe it to someone. I don't see a problem with appropriate use of smileys.

I do not walk on eggshells here.
I do not usually enter the convos that require that much restraint.
I read them sometimes. It is like easedropping with permission.

When I post to a volitile thread, it's to say something I feel strongly about so I am willing to back up.
It's like RL in that you have to pick your battles so to speak.
I think you can say most anything ,it's how you say it.
That goes for RL or here.
Most sites are far more brutal in how they speak!

It is best to be yourself.
If I normally could not feel like myself here then I would not spend time here.
I do because I can be myself. There are enough people to match up all those parts I have found.

I find it a wonderful opportunity to discuss or read peoples opposing opinions here. Arguements may start but as long as they are civil no problem. I think it has enabled more info from people that for whatever reason, may not normally discuss it with an unlike person.

Many topics are ones I do not discuss or already have discussed with friends and family. I know where they stand. Many people do not discuss a wide variety of topics . I like posting and having only the people that are interested reply. I find it refreshing in that way. I have to get along with a lot of different types of people just within a large family and all the in laws. If anything I understand the hows and whys, of opinions they hold.

I think hootoo and RL both have pluses and minuses. But then I think that about nearly everything. So that's being myself!

At the moment, I find hootoo to be either dull, or reactionary 90% of the time. It really the Open Deating Society and the collaborative novel that have kept me here the left few weeks.

H2G2 has grown so big, there are bound to be some areas where you feel at home & some you don't. We all tend to behave differently according to the people we're with or the particular situation.

I feel that I'm more assertive here than in RL because I can write my posts without being interrupted & take time to think about replies. I try to be polite in RL so don't find it any hardship to be the same here. As someone, PQ I think, implied, there is a difference between being directly abusive or swearing at someone and opposing their point of view or pulling apart their argument in a rational manner.

Smileys can be useful to avoid misinterpretations when there is no tone of voice or facial expression to support the printed word. I prefer not to see too many superfluous ones & avoid too many myself because I can't remember many & find them tedious to type!

Flake otherthan what you just mentioned ,do you depend on ASk thread to entertain you? I skim ASk? and How Do I? May or may not get involved. I find going to peoples pages and saying hello or posting anything you want in my journal more typical for me. Lots of people are into special interests clubs.

The stats page is good to see who is talking where at any moment and list new entries. Summertime is slower on hootoo and so are the weekends.

One reason that H2G2 is better over RL arguments, is that you have time to think about your reply and, at times, can realise that what you're typing is complete nonsense! Thus holding back on starting a huge argument. Of course, the downside is that in RL, an argument may quickly blow out of proportion, but just as quickly die down. Here, people will come back after a weekend away, all ready to continue fighting I don't understand this, so let those people get on with it.

Smilies are definitely a lot quicker than trying to describe what you're feeling. I especially use them, as Bob said, on addition to a sarcastic comment, to make sure people know I'm joking, cuz they can't see the smiley glint in my eye. I find I need more! Like which is used a lot, I sometimes feel like The Simpsons' Comic Book Guy - "There is no emoticon for what I am feeling"
I see what you mean with this one --> "" - seems to be overused a lot, like "lol" - are you really laughing out loud at your own comments that often? If you're "rotfl" - how can you type? Bah humbug.

AskH2G2 is definitely nowhere near as interesting as it used to be. It does seem that pre Rupert there were a lot more controversial subjects and firey arguments.

Perhaps rather than bemoaning this fact, we should make a point of starting up new 'interesting' conversations ourselves. (And, for a change, not about what's wrong with x country .)

oh, and people should be more encouraged to 'Search' to see if their question has already been answered. I'm guilty of not doing this too, but I shall do from now on!

and just had another thought ( for all this writing to myself!) - pre Rupert, H2G2 was relatively new, researchers discovered intelligent people to have intelligent discussions with. Now it's a few years old, a lot of the 'big' debates have been done (i.e. religion/war/death), is that part of the reason that hootoo seems to have dumbed down?

The FFFF has managed to discuss and debate various aspects of religion for the past three and a half years. Even the ones that have been done before become fresh and new, because new people come along to give them new perspectives.

So, no, I don't agree with that theory.

As for appropriate use of smileys, I think everyone here agrees that there are times when smileys are appropriate and useful, especially in conveying nuance. When I talk about hieroglyphic language, this is what I mean:

Yesterday I saw my daughter at the little that lives across the street. I knew he was a little when I saw him a stray in an inappropriate way.

And that should win a couple of awards for inappropriate use of smileys...

I'm not sure it'll win you any awards, but here's a for your effort.





......

Ok. The smilies issue. I don't care. It was just a flippant comment in the original post, I don't have a vendetta against people who use them.

In reply to post 31:

I use as much as the site to entertain as... well, entertains me. I find the guide useful but utterly boring to read unless I need something specific.

I was just ranting at the reactionary/pompous atmosphere that I see on hootoo a lot. I wouldn't be here if I hated it.