A Conversation for Ask h2g2

On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 161

anhaga

One wonders out of between which cheeks the winds to which you refer blow.smiley - laugh


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 162

anhaga

speaking of wind, check out chauncey's post at the "opinions on a war with iraq" thread: 156?thread=1569585" >F19585?thread=200429&latest=1


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 163

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

A pistol cartridge huh? Very interesting. I don't know why but I thought I should say something.

But here's the real killer.

"Quick, somebody look up a Yukatec word for "writing" and be done with this."

Okay, but it's not going to be real quick because first we have to decide which of the 30, some related, some mutually unintelligible, dialects you want to use.

Will the confusion never end?

Okay, how about Kukulcan, the Mayan equivalent of Quetzalcoatl, patron of learning? His name would probably work better for us than a pistol cartridge or a piece of heavy paper.

Can't you just imagine the scholarly debates?

"Hey look at the jugs on that Xochiquetzal in that kukulcan!!"

"That kukul-what? What's a kukulcan?"

"Sort of like Wiley Coyote and Road Runner, without the soundtrack."

"Ptah!! Really?!!! And I'll have you know those aren't jugs. Those are calendar disks, okay? They don't even look like jugs. Maybe bowls with nipples or whatever."

"Darnit! That's what I said!"

"And stop mixing up things with your nahuatl teoatl. We're confused enough already, okay?"

"Ah-cux!!!"

"I'm not the weasel. You are!"

"Ix-chel!"

"Oh, now we're back to prurient stuff. Thank you very much. Try to hold a scholarly discussion and look what happens!"

"It's not my fault everything reminds me of sex."

"What's sexy about a weasel?"

"Uh.. well... can we talk in private?"


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 164

anhaga

I just picked Yukatec because once I had an interesting experience with a hot pepper somewhere near Uxmal. That's all I'll say about that.

What about just "writing"? But then what do we call the individual -- uh -- glyphs? They aren't letters. They aren't words. They aren't letters. They aren't words smiley - wah

did I mention smiley - sleepy?


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 165

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

Yeah, go back to sleep. We can sort this out tomorrow.

Besides I've got to do a workout tape in the bedroom for the next session of New Age Tantric Sociology 101 (NATS.101), Lab hours by appointment.

Pleasant dreams!


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 166

creachy

hi ya. some of the backlog here is LONG so i have'nt read much. bear with me if i am repeating things already said.

i heard, and i may mean read, that the devil is responsible for mankind being able to write and speak. apperantly, during his fall from heaven he ended up on earth. here he met a race of man known as the Sumarians. he taught them to develop their language and to write so as his Word could be spread faster. the sumarians dissappeared mysteriously but their knowledge was absorbed by other cultures. so there you have it. we speak, read and write thanks to satan!


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 167

anhaga

I'd be interested in finding out your source for that suggestion, Lieutenant.

anhaga


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 168

creachy

i think i still have it at home. i will look it up for you.


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 169

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

That's nonsense, Lieutenant. It wasn't Satan who taught people to read and write, it was Quetzalcoatl. Everybody knows that. Hah!!


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 170

creachy

well it didn't actually say satan, it said something about the fallen angel, who as we know, later became known as the devil. i still haven't found the reference but i know i have it somewhere so i will keep looking.


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 171

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

I finally got the copy of the Popol Vuh a couple days ago and I've been reviewing it intensely ever since, well, maybe sort of intensely come to think of it. Let's not go overboard with the hyperbole.

What's especially striking is that some parts appear to be descriptions of what were probably the pictures in the original. This is important to understand because it gives people a clue concerning what this sort of "writing" is actually about.

I think many English speakers could appreciate a comic strip and that's what these books were and are sort of like because the picture can really tell a big story if it's drawn skillfully enough. This is sort of along the lines of the picture I decribed in my story earlier in this discussion.


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 172

Alitnil

I just finished Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel". While it doesn't completely answer the question of language origin, it does fill in some of the pieces, and also answers a lot of other facinating questions. I highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't already read it.


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 173

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

Hey, thanks. Now, what were we talking about again?


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 174

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

COME TO THINK OF IT..

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On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 175

Alitnil

a propos of what?


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 176

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

The origin and dispersal of language, silly! Although I think it's more like the ontology and disruption of language. Beebspeak! Meaningless drival revealing shallow minds.

And what's especially hilarious about this is when the lights go out or they get ahead two versions, none of this will even be legible.


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 177

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

>> ...when the lights go out or they get ahead two versions, none of this will even be legible. <<

Ah yes, castles made of silicon.
smiley - biggrin
jwf


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 178

Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like


You'll forgive me if this has been said in the voluminous vbacklog somewhere already, but;

'Language? It's a virus, from outer space.'

The Burroughs boy answers the age old quandry - did one caveman connvince all the others to speak his language or did entire groups of cave men sudden;y develop language skills at the sam etime?

Either is a mind boggling proposition, if you think about it...

smiley - shark


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 179

RAF Wing... Lookee I'm Invisible!!

Language evolved because humans form breeding colonies, sometimes called tribes, like many other creatures. Language facilitates breeding and raising children plus the children then pickup the language, especially if it's gestures. The gestures then facilitate picking up the spoken language.

This is also why spoken languages are frequently referred to as mother tongues. It wasn't cave men at all doing it separately or at once. It was women, not necessarily so dense as to be residing in caves all the time, who taught men how to talk and sometimes talk sweetly it seems.


On the origin and dispersal of language

Post 180

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

>> It wasn't cave men ... It was women, who taught men how to talk ... <<

Which is why most men prefer not to.

Communication between real men can be done with grunts, bellows, gestures, winks, faces.

But the smart ones know that women can be had if one learns the sweet talk.

smiley - biggrin
~jwf~


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