A Conversation for Ask h2g2

Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 141

badger party tony party green party

Not quite, I just cant spell very well, but thanks for picking that one up the names are very confusing.

The system i use to tell them apart is that

Hoovooloo sometimes spouted stupid opinions but is actually very intelligent

whereas

Hooloovoo sometimes manges to post to a thread without spouting a stupid opinion but is actually very consistently wrong about most things.

This is actually just an opinion and people shouldnt believe it just beause they find hooloovoo's posts obnoxious.

smiley - rainbow


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 142

BouncyBitInTheMiddle

I wonder about the top-up/tuition fees. I missed top-up fees by a year, but probably wouldn't have been eligible to pay them - as it is I narrowly miss out on government support for my normal tuition fees and get just under the full loan. And the point is, that despite all this, I'm not exactly living in squalor, nor am I driving myself into debt. I haven't actually spent any of that loan yet. Have to work in ummer, plus have a small job with the uni as an IT tutor as well, but most people with proper jobs are worked much harder than I am.

So I'm inclined to think that, with some exceptions whose circumstances don't fit what the system is built to deal with, most of the complaints about university fees aren't all that justified. Of course, just to say that I'm not having any problems doesn't mean that some or even most people aren't, but I haven't seen any evidence of that. So, when the government said they could keep higher education free for all, but were going to spend the money on primary schools instead, well, I couldn't disagree really.

Of course this is all an aside. Just about any money spent on education is worthwhile IMO. Except for the tens of thousands my old school wasted on electronic whiteboards (we needed books: we got prestige projects).


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 143

Teasswill

I object to the student loan/top up fees in principle - I agree that it doesn't mean people are in dire straits while at uni. It does mean though, that those from least affluent homes are likely to have the least foundation to start from (in terms of basic possessions) & most debt at the end.

I certainly agree that money is not always spent appropriately in schools. However, having been a school governor, I am aware that funding is often restricted - has to be spent on a certain area e.g. security, despite what the school's needs might be.


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 144

BouncyBitInTheMiddle

<<"It does mean though, that those from least affluent homes are likely to have the least foundation to start from (in terms of basic possessions) & most debt at the end.">>

I don't understand?

Those from the least affluent homes don't pay the top-up fees, and get grants instead of loans. At least in theory?


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 145

Teasswill

I'd forgotten about the grants - in that case it's those who fall the wrong side of the assessment line that will be worst off!

Prior to the top up fees it was the case that those from poorest homes would be eligible for the largest loans, although now I've seen my eldest through it, I see there isn't much difference between min & max loan.


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 146

Hooloovoo


> When Hoo asks for acheivement then says it should be done without
> the use of his taxes

When exactly have I said that? I'm quite happy for my taxes to be spent on education. Having been through the system myself and achieved two degrees it's quite right that I should be paying back into the system now that I have a well paying job.

During my degree I worked weekends and all through the holidays and managed to come out with zero debt. It's not impossible.

> even someone like Hoo with his lack of critical thinking skills

Given that my degrees are in astrophysics and solar physics, I think my critical thinking skills are up to scratch thank you very much.


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 147

Hooloovoo

> is actually very consistently wrong about most things.

Funny, I was just thinking exactly that same thing about you!

Clearly your understanding of the top-up fees system is somewhat misguided.


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 148

BouncyBitInTheMiddle

<<"it's those who fall the wrong side of the assessment line that will be worst off!">>

There isn't exactly a line. The thing is done as a near continuous scale: rounded to the nearest pound.


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 149

azahar

<> (Hooloovoo)

This is actually the norm for most university students in Canada and the US. You always have at least one part-time job that often turns into full-time work during holidays.

When I did my TEFL course in Bristol 15 years ago they told me it was a very intensive course and I would not be able to do *anything else* during those six weeks. Except I did end up racing out from Friday afternoon classes to do my evening shift at a restaurant and then also work all weekend there. And I somehow also managed to get all my homework and other projects done, as well as all my class prep. Bascially, needs must.

And considering how many (yes, I know, not all) university students spend most of their weekends getting as smiley - drunk as humanly possible, they'd probably do better to be working.


az


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 150

badger party tony party green party

FROM POST 146:

> When Hoo asks for acheivement then says it should be done without
> the use of his taxes

When exactly have I said that?smiley - book

smiley - erm In the contribution you made TEN posts earlier

"But the problem as I see is that I very much doubt the current crop of under-achieving lay-abouts are going to pay enough tax to do it. The 30-50 age bracket (that I am rapidly approaching) are just going to end up covering the cost of the young dole-bludgers as well as the old.

It's alright giving the single unemployable parent money to fund their six kids, but what sort of example is that setting the offspring? The just think that not working and living off the state is a perfectly normal existance.smiley - book

You dont want people to live off the state, but rather than supply or increase strategic benefits you agree with cutting them so that people end up in or stay in (relative) poverty existing on benefits.smiley - huh



I never said people were unable to get through unversity without incurring debt or that all students with the right grades from lower income households would be put off entering higher education.

However kelli has said that the average figure for parents supporting a child through unversity for a UK family is 25k hardly small change for any family let a lone the less well off.

You may be willing for some of your taxes to go to education but that is only one spect of acheivement. What if the savings accounts that you have mentioned as a virtual theft of your money by Mr Brown are used to support a school leaver through low paid or voluntary work while they gain the skils and experience necessary to do a job where they will ultimatley pay taxes and/or make a positive contribution to society.

Now I think it would be great if all parents thought about this the moment they knew the were expecting but they dont some arent even willing to help their kids at all.

I know for a fact that for some children expensive nanny state intervention is essential to their social, emotional, economic, educational and physical developement.

I know because a lot of my work is with kids who dont get enough of it at home a better solution is to encourage and yes even finance parents to supply it in the home themselves. This can be done through funding childcare, as Im sure you will acknowledge a child that sees a parent going out to earn an honest crust is more likely to learn the dignity of labour. Encouraging and supplying free education to parents and children has a similar affect and even supporting people while they learn has a net gain effect.

one love smiley - rainbow


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 151

Hooloovoo

"You dont want people to live off the state, but rather than supply or increase strategic benefits you agree with cutting them so that people end up in or stay in (relative) poverty existing on benefits."

Do you always take what someone writes and twist it around through several hundred degrees to make it say what you want it to say? You should become a politician.

What I was saying there is I don't see how giving the parents an ever increasing level of benefits is going to encourage the child to work hard at their education. It is a simple fact that many kids in the education system today are simply not interested in learning. And why should they be, when their parents are telling them that they don't need grades and a good job? They can follow their example and live off the state.

No matter how much money you throw at schools, you can't force people to learn.


"You may be willing for some of your taxes to go to education but that is only one spect of acheivement. What if the savings accounts that you have mentioned as a virtual theft of your money by Mr Brown are used to support a school leaver through low paid or voluntary work while they gain the skils and experience necessary to do a job where they will ultimatley pay taxes and/or make a positive contribution to society."


You're joking right? I'd like to see just how the £200 to £500 a child is going to get will allow them to do the things you suggest. Even considering compound interest from the day they are born I would doubt it would have grown enough by the time they are 16 to support them through any period of time.


"Now I think it would be great if all parents thought about this the moment they knew the were expecting but they dont some arent even willing to help their kids at all."


Well, maybe it's time to start forcing parents to pay and contribute for their offspring. Automatically deduct some of their salary or benefits and pay it in vouchers that can only be used for things to do with the child. Not squandered on luxuries like cigarettes, alcohol, and Sky TV etc.

I agree with what you're saying, I just don't think this government are going about it the right way at all.


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 152

Hoovooloo


Have you ever looked back at an old conversation thread, and thought "I do think that, but I don't remember ever typing it in that way. It does sound like me though... apart from THAT bit... huh?" smiley - huh

And then realised that the person posting that you thought was you was in fact someone else entirely? smiley - weird


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 153

Whisky

Getting your 'v's and 'l's mixed up Hoo?


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 154

clare



My granma used to say "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive" smiley - spider


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 155

Hoovooloo


No deception happening - there was legitimately another geezer here who had chosen a very very similar screen name to me, not surprisingly given that this is/was a HHGG related site. He'd spelled it right, but I was here before him. smiley - shrug It never actually seemed to cause that much confusion.

However, to add to my confusion now I have lost the login details for U114627 and have accidentally logged in as this, which is another account entirely. What a tangled we weave when first we practice to update our browser software and lose all our bloody saved passwords and cookies!


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 156

clare


Yea, verily smiley - zen


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 157

clare


smiley - geek So I was having some posting and/or login issues in the last 8 hours myself.
What I did was, before I logged in, access the site via one of my brunel bookmarks/favorites and log in from that page. (If I tried to log in from a pliny page there would be issues such as "website not online" or some such thing)


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 158

Whisky

Yeah - I vaguely remember the fact there were two of you with that name years ago... Used to cause all sorts of confusion...


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 159

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

smiley - bigeyes
>> It never actually seemed to cause that much confusion. <<

Let me assure you that confusion was such that I for one
dismissed you as a shitsofrenic nutty bar with impossibly
high standards for everyone except yourself. I suspect
that others also simply declined to become engaged
after being on the receiving end of your vitriol.

Later, quite recently actually, I have come to see you as
a vibrant and intelligent human being with a wide range
of interests and an objective if not dispassionate POV.

smiley - ok
~jwf~


Why should parents get subsidised child care?

Post 160

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

smiley - smiley

Silence was the stern reply.

smiley - cheers
~jwf~


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