h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

No irony - if people want churches then let them have them - if they want to feed the homeless, then fine.

#However I disagree with faith based education, care homes, adoption agencies, and businesses.

Each are a form of exclusion to other members of society.

Sorry for any confusion.

When you said this:"It is my experience that mothers are better mothers than fathers.

I noticed an exclusion of the idea that the homosexuals who wanted to adopt could just as well be women as they might be men.

I then made a mental leap and compared you to Queen Victory who assented to a law outlawing male homosexuality but oulwd not do the smae for a law prohibiting lesbianism as she thought the idea of Sapphic love as entirely fanciful and the fantasies of modern heterosexual men. I was trying to be funny and make a point. One of those by itself is stretch for me both together is it seems far too tall an order.


Moving on...Im not looking through a telescope. I have just seen good and bad parenting VERY close up. I look at this through the lense of my personal experience and professionl training and work. I see an underbelly most people ignore or just cant see. Parenting isnt easy, getting it wrong is easy and the ability to get it right is a nigh on unteachable thing. Its something you just learn how to do. Its a shame that parents who cant cope give up children, its a shame that some are criminally inept end up separated from their flesh and blood but on balance its probably for the best. What is even sadder is that a gay or lesbian couple who have had good parenting skills instilled in them by their own upbringing would if the church had their way be routinely denied the chance to nurture a child because of bigotry founded on a book that is utterly riddled with inaccuraces.

one love

>> ...because of bigotry founded on a book that is utterly riddled with inaccuraces. <<

Well of course. It was written by jews and transcribed by Arabs for godsake.

~jwf~

>> ...faith based education, care homes, adoption agencies, and businesses... are a form of exclusion to other members of society. <<

Ah! I see your point and agree.
And their inclusions (of dogma) are just as bad as their exclusions.

~jwf~

>> ...seen good and bad parenting VERY close up. <<

Yes, I get the impression you work with a social services organisation and sometimes must deal with both the blameless and the guilty unfortunates who make up the dregs of society.

This exposure will inevitably give you a disproportionate focus on many human failings and my analogy to the telescope was because such constant exposure might lead you to a perception that these cases are the norm. Happily, there really is a whole other world (or two) out there where normal people raise normal kids. Drugs, violence, homosexuality are just something they see on TV.

So I was actually being sympathetic with how this exposure impacts on your world view. My suggestion that you take a vacation from this exposure is still well meant.

peace
~jwf~

Jeez! I was hoping to at least get a rise out of ya for referring to your clients as "the dregs of society".

BTW, I do admire your convinctions and applaud your work. And I do sincerely hope you can and will avoid the burn-out so many social workers eventually suffer when their liberal wishful thinking gets ground down by the grim realities of life in an uncaring and unfair world.

And for the record, my own supposed 'homophobia' just can't get my head around the idea of two gay men raising adopted children. I keep getting hung up on what happens when, as all parents discover, discipline boils down to that old 'good cop - bad cop' role playing.


~jwf~

Well although the good cop bad cop way can work, one of its major failings is that it teaches children its used on that one gender is a push over while the other is a figure to be listened to.

How many men who grew up with a good cop mom and bad cop dad end up expecting to get their own way when they set up home with a woman because their experience is that women should giv in to their wants.

Im using an etreme hpothesis but want that does play out in reality.

Im not in social services as a social worker, I do a variety of things for different agancies. I see lots of good parenting fortunately. I worked for quite a while in a group where two lesbians brought their son they were much of a muchness as parents go I found. I know another lesbian couple who have a som who is completely of the rails, he assualted me physically and verbally. Is this because he's living in a house with two women? The vast majority of the kids who have a pop of oe kind or antoher at me come from male-female households of female only. Does this make heterosexuals or mothers in general bad parents?

I think its best to deal with people as people and not worry about their own personal tastes. Its not like drug abuse or violence it doesnt affect children in the same way. In all honesty Ive found it affects children about as much as disability in a parent. The children try to hide it because of other peoples reactions (or what they beileive other peoples reactions wioll be). I worked with a group of young men who cared for the single parent, disabled mothers at one point. Even amongst a group of other young men who were going through the same experience they were uncomfortable raising the subject of what tehy did for their mothers. Simply because their admitidley unsual experience wasnt the normal macho experince they had been led to believe was *the* way they should be living.

We put a lot of pressure on people to be somethings when quite often we miss the mark and stipulate thngs that in the big picture dont count for much.

Love is not about two parents, about one male one female, it is about genuine care.

one love

Figures certainly suggest that having two parents is an aid to social and educational development.

However is this because the majority of single parents are bad parents, or because wayward children contribute to marriage break-up, or because single parents are likely to be economically challenged anyway ?

I believe that raising people is a 2 person, 2 gender job - simply because kids take you through all sorts of emotions and conflicts you never dreamt of, and having someone else to support you is essential. I also think it is essential for the development of the child that this view should be as different from your own as possible, but that the child is secure in both your love.

I also seriously think that being a good parent is a gift, and some otherwise perfectly normal people should never have children.

>> In all honesty Ive found it affects children about as much as disability in a parent. <<

Hmmm... I thank you for your honest observation. And I acknowledge that not all families are perfect.

The ideal family setting as described in the post above by McKay - "..raising people is a 2 person, 2 gender job - simply because kids take you through all sorts of emotions and conflicts you never dreamt of, and having someone else to support you is essential" - isn't always possible.

But some limits must be set on the standards. Anything less than 'perfect' has to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

A recent sudy I saw on the news today concludes that adopting parents are generally more motivated and have, on average, provided better care than 'real' parents do.

That said, I can no longer argue for a general or blanket objection to allowing homosexuals to adopt. My one restriction would be that no child adopted by gays should ever have to share his life with a poodle, whippet or lapdog of any kind.


~jwf~

I wonder what the Catholic Church thinks about gay divorce ?

Heh.

I wonder if in 200 years time religious leaders will be apologising for the suffering caused by their intolerance, as with slavery at the moment. Or even taking credit for campaigning against prejudice.

Gif