A Conversation for The Open Debating Society
Loyalty to Governments
R. Daneel Olivaw -- (User 201118) (Member FFFF, ARS, and DOS) ( -O- ) Started conversation Nov 8, 2003
Can a person be loyal to a nation if they believe that the government of that nation consists of fanatics and lunatics supported by a constituency of morons?
Loyalty to Governments
Flake99 Posted Nov 8, 2003
It's the other way round - a government should be loyal to their nation.
Also, it depends how you define 'being disloyal'. If speaking out against government policies is officially 'disloyal to your nation' then you do not live in a democracy.
However, if you disagreed with government policy and set about destroying your nation's infrastructure (roads, water supplies, elecricity etc.) to topple the government, I believe that could be termed 'disloyal to your nation'.
Loyalty to Governments
HappyDude Posted Nov 8, 2003
Nation and Government are two different things, it is possible to be loyal to one but not the other, if this was not the case there would be no such thing as revolution or civil war.
Loyalty to Governments
Mister Matty Posted Nov 8, 2003
"Can a person be loyal to a nation if they believe that the government of that nation consists of fanatics and lunatics supported by a constituency of morons?"
What government could you *possibly* be referring to, I wonder? 
Loyalty to Governments
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted Nov 9, 2003
Rebellion against the government can be a supreme act of patriotism... but it depends on how it turns out. If you win, you're a patriot. If you lose, you're a traitor.
Loyalty to Governments
HappyDude Posted Nov 9, 2003
no need to remind us brits about that Blatherskite, we have just spent the last week burning effigies of a man who tried to destroy our government 397 years ago
Loyalty to Governments
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted Nov 10, 2003
And if he'd been successful, you might have been celebrating him as a hero! 
Loyalty to Governments
Joe Otten Posted Nov 12, 2003
"Can a person be loyal to a nation if they believe that the government of that nation consists of fanatics and lunatics supported by a constituency of morons?"
Yes.
Loyalty to a nation and any of its intstitutions is not the same as loyalty to a government, which is only one institution. In particular opposing a democratically elected government is not the same as opposing democracy. It may seem obvious, but you'd be suprised at how many people are confused by this.
Key: Complain about this post
Loyalty to Governments
- 1: R. Daneel Olivaw -- (User 201118) (Member FFFF, ARS, and DOS) ( -O- ) (Nov 8, 2003)
- 2: trunt (Nov 8, 2003)
- 3: anhaga (Nov 8, 2003)
- 4: Flake99 (Nov 8, 2003)
- 5: HappyDude (Nov 8, 2003)
- 6: Mister Matty (Nov 8, 2003)
- 7: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (Nov 9, 2003)
- 8: HappyDude (Nov 9, 2003)
- 9: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (Nov 10, 2003)
- 10: HappyDude (Nov 10, 2003)
- 11: Joe Otten (Nov 12, 2003)
More Conversations for The Open Debating Society
Write an Entry
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. It has been compiled and recompiled many times and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers."