A Conversation for Ludwig Wittgenstein
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Recumbentman Posted May 12, 2003
"a pictured arrow (such as on a steet sign)"
It's getting late. Yes I mean street sign.
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Rho Posted May 13, 2003
I'm glad you liked the Editing, and thanks for the compliment. Well-written entries or entries about subjects that I previously knew little about are my favourite to subedit, and this was both.
I'll post a brief ordered list of the suggestions I used, and my reasons for not using a few of the suggestions. Thanks for looking through it so thoroughly - it's best to do so now, before it reaches the Front Page.
- I'm afraid that I don't agree about having the space after only one side of the hypen. Instead, I've put spaces about both sides.
- I've fixed the typo. I'm sorry that I missed that.
- You're absolutely right - it looks better with the line breaks.
- I think this sentence is better in italics than in bold. Entire sentences in bold never look as good as entire sentences in italics.
- I've restructured that sentence.
- I've incorporated a modified form of the suggested sentence into the article.
- I'm afraid that hyphens will have to suffice - em dashes, unfortunately, can't be used in the Edited Guide.
- I've added an HTML arrow - → - into the text. It may not be approved GuideML, however, in which case the Editors will remove it. I hope they don't.
- I've added the dot.
I'll return the entry in the next day or two, after I've thoroughly look through it once more. I look forward to seeing it on the Front Page in the near future.
RhoMuNuQ
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Recumbentman Posted May 15, 2003
Thanks Rho
"em dashes, unfortunately, can't be used in the Edited Guide" -- that falbbergasts me! I love em dashes! Specially two or three joined together. To whom can I appeal that one?
I'm having second thoughts about the put-down of Professor Pears; perhaps "changes of emphasis" would be politer than "misrepresentations"
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Rho Posted May 15, 2003
It's in Subeditors-Style that "we can't do real en-dashes and em-dashes, so hyphens will have to do". Anna (U25) is the one who, as far as I know, updates this, so she's the one you should ask.
I'll make that last change, and return it tonight.
RhoMuNuQ
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Recumbentman Posted May 16, 2003
RhoMuNuQ -- I hope that "tonight" wasn't last night -- there are a couple of important caveats:
First bulleted list -- there is now too much space! Ideally the Wittgenstein quotes should be followed by s; they now seem to have s (and too many of them).
Persistent Theme -- I still think bold is justified; otherwise the bold above, which is only my examples, stands out too much. This sentence is the central message, and I would like it to catch the eye of the fleeting lurker.
Further Info: this is most important. "The Tractatus and Philosophical Investigations mix brilliantly chosen, and often startling, images and good sense with *tricky concepts*." -- That's new. I said "hard going". If you want to say "tricky concepts" it should be qualified e.g. "tricky concepts that make for hard going" or "tricky concepts that are not immediately digestible on first reading" -- I prefer (naturally) my own version.
"Philosophy should always be read in its writer's own words" -- that's all very well, but Wittgenstein wrote in German, which is why I included "as near as possible". You make me ask too much.
"but for those who are willing to risk inevitable changes of emphasis, a very readable interpretation of Wittgenstein's thought is given by Professor David Pears in Wittgenstein (Faber & Faber 1971)." -- you need italics round the name of the book "Wittgenstein".
I wrote to Anna about the em dashes.
The → arrow looks good in some sizes of text, poor in others. An arrow smiley would really be . Incidentally, I prefer not to have brackets round the arrow; again, it is more Wittgenstinian not to bracket it. Have a peep into "Philosophical Investigations" where the (fairly frequent) illustrations are integral to the text.
It is more startling without brackets, and it is supposed to be.
Please get these into shape or I'll be tearing my hair out again (ask Anna about "Rainbows End") ~Andrew
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Recumbentman Posted May 16, 2003
And by the way you've called David Pears "Professor" which is quite correct, but I didn't (in this context, as an author) for the same reason I didn't give Sir Anthony Kenny his title; writers should be taken on equal footing. I may feel like calling Wittgenstein "His Holiness" but it would do nothing to improve his books, and he would not thank me.
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Recumbentman Posted May 16, 2003
I see you've replaced the double quotes with the italics-and-blockquotes rule. This works, but
1 It also applies above the rule ("in what follows") so you should perhaps say "in this entry" or equivalent.
2 Not every reader will know what a blockquote is. Use "indented?"
3 It has prevented you putting the persistent theme in italics as you proposed. More reason for bold.
Dear me, it really would be easier to use double quotes . . .
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Rho Posted May 17, 2003
I'll point the Italics towards this thread - the entry's out of my hands now, I'm afraid.
Incidentally, it wasn't me who removed the double quotes; it was the Editor who edited the entry after I returned it.
RhoMuNuQ
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Recumbentman Posted May 17, 2003
Thanks!
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Recumbentman Posted May 17, 2003
To the italic that has taken over from Rho:
Just spotted another piece of punctuation; the third paragraph under "The Later Writings" the sentence "Rule-following, for instance is not a blind but a creative activity [etc]" needs either another comma after "for instance" or (preferably) remove the one after "Rule-following".
I have re-read the whole to see if the overall sense is compromised by the things I complained to RhoMuNuQ about above; and I suppose it isn't, too badly; but please read the last few posts and see what you can do.
Pears's book needs to go into italics for sure.
The examples in bold stick out too much and may be better in normal, and the spaces are too much around them.
See how reasonable I'm trying to be
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Recumbentman Posted May 17, 2003
See in particular Posting 66.
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
World Service Memoryshare team Posted May 19, 2003
Hello Recumbentman,
Good to see you again I've made all the changes I can from posts 66 and 67, but am out of context with the requests in post 68 - could you clarify for me?
Re your request to embolden Persistent Theme. We wouldn't embolden a headline - it would look out of place with the other headlines and the point with headlines is that they're all measured equally.
I'm also happy with the space under the heading Early Wittgenstein: the Tractatus. The hierarchy is clear - statement, quote, comment.
Anna
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Recumbentman Posted May 19, 2003
Good morning Anna!
My special requests to RhoMuNuQ were mostly in posts 54 and 60.
I didn't want to embolden the header "Persistent Theme" but the sentence after it: "Most, if not all etc" (a paraphrase and *not* a quote).
The spacing and double-quote system I wished for can be seen in my version, A963579. I prefer a layout that doesn't emphasise that first bulleted list so much -- they are not Wittgenstein's examples, only mine.
I wouldn't indent that particular list myself personally.
Any hope of an arrow smiley? The → looks weak in some sizes of text, which is why I rejected it in the first place. And of course early-Netscape won't show it at all. (And if this special character *is* permitted, what is the rationale for the no-em-dashes rule?)
A pointing hand (both directions) would also get plenty of use from me. That come to think of it may be the very first original smiley, as used by monks in medieval manuscripts.
Looking forward to meeting some hootooers on the 28th of June. So far I know one one from previous RL and have met one (Gnomon) when he came to a concert I was in.
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
World Service Memoryshare team Posted May 19, 2003
Hi Recumbentman,
We wouldn't embolden that sentence either. Our style is to let the words speak for themselves and not lead the reader in ordinary text. Other features of the hierachy are emboldened (as in list items begun with a subheader of sorts) as part of the framework of the typography.
Sadly, there is no chance of an arrow smiley - the smileys request list is on hold at the moment.
Will be good to meet you on the 28th
Anna
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Recumbentman Posted May 19, 2003
That's fine Anna, and I would just ask you to unembolden ("embiggens is a perfectly cromulent word" -- Homer plays Scrabble) the first bulleted list, and tidy up the spacing of it, which I do believe Rho did last of all and didn't check well. ~AR
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Otto Fisch ("Stop analysing Strava.... and cut your hedge") Posted Sep 25, 2003
Hi all -
Not sure if anyone's still subscribed here, but I thought I'd post anyway as a lot of bright people were on this thread....
Could I ask philosophy of language people to pop over to A1075727 on Religious Language, which is in PR at the moment? I've made a few comments, but I don't really know much about this area....
Otto
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
Recumbentman Posted Sep 30, 2003
Thanks Otto. I went there and made a noise about the author calling Wittgenstein a member of the Vienna Circle. Must go back and read the rest.
Key: Complain about this post
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Picked for the Edited Guide!
- 61: Recumbentman (May 12, 2003)
- 62: Recumbentman (May 12, 2003)
- 63: Rho (May 13, 2003)
- 64: Recumbentman (May 15, 2003)
- 65: Rho (May 15, 2003)
- 66: Recumbentman (May 16, 2003)
- 67: Recumbentman (May 16, 2003)
- 68: Recumbentman (May 16, 2003)
- 69: Rho (May 17, 2003)
- 70: Recumbentman (May 17, 2003)
- 71: Recumbentman (May 17, 2003)
- 72: Recumbentman (May 17, 2003)
- 73: World Service Memoryshare team (May 19, 2003)
- 74: Recumbentman (May 19, 2003)
- 75: World Service Memoryshare team (May 19, 2003)
- 76: Recumbentman (May 19, 2003)
- 77: Otto Fisch ("Stop analysing Strava.... and cut your hedge") (Sep 25, 2003)
- 78: Recumbentman (Sep 30, 2003)
More Conversations for Ludwig Wittgenstein
Write an Entry
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. It has been compiled and recompiled many times and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers."