A Conversation for The History of Dowsing

A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 41

St Romani Angel Guardian of Crystals. Minister of Coffee now on the decaff!!

hi Z smiley - fish

sorry ive not been here for a while been having pc problems but they are sorted now thank god smiley - smiley

just a quick drop in before I go to work be back asap to carry on thanks to every one and any one for your patience smiley - biggrin

romi smiley - angel


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 42

Zarquon's Singing Fish!

Good to know you're still working on this, romi! smiley - angelsmiley - biggrinsmiley - ok

smiley - fishsmiley - musicalnote


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 43

Zarquon's Singing Fish!

And don't forget to tell us when you've made amendments!

smiley - fishsmiley - musicalnote


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 44

Felonious Monk - h2g2s very own Bogeyman

"like many other folklore activities including spellcasting and divination by stones etc, it worked,"

I still have problems with this kind of assertion. I can show you, at the very least, evidence that dowsing doesn't work. And as for spellcasting and divination by stones, I'd as soon chuck a coin in the air.


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 45

Zarquon's Singing Fish!

Whether or not you believe it, FM, probably isn't the issue.smiley - smiley If the British Army use it, that's probably evidence enough.

Romi - there's a typo 'successfull' > 'successful' to be sorted. Let us know when you consider the entry complete.

smiley - fishsmiley - musicalnote


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 46

Felonious Monk - h2g2s very own Bogeyman

That's not the point I'm making. MY point is that the point of dowsing and whether or not it works, is becoming elided with spellcasting and other mystical crap (for want of a better word). It's one thing making claims for dowsing in this article, but another altogether in trying to justify a totally spurious set of personal beliefs.


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 47

Zarquon's Singing Fish!

What amendments would you like to see, specifically, FM?

smiley - fishsmiley - musicalnote


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 48

Felonious Monk - h2g2s very own Bogeyman

Take a step back from advocacy. Remove highly contentious material. The 'fact' that dowsing works *is* contentious, it is not a truism. For every supposed 'proof' of dowsing I can probably dig up a disproof, and the Sceptical Inquirer article pretty well demolishes the favourable conclusions of the most rigorous experiment performed so far by questioning the interpretation of the results.
Other highly questionable statements:
"Dowsing itself ... is an instinct within all humans and one that we have forgotten in the main how to use."

Really?

"Superstition and scholars tried to make science out of the country skill of dowsing, giving precise details of how to look for gold and other precious metals etc, in that elaborate almost ritualistic preparations had to be made..."

This is *not* science. This is the complete antithesis of it. Science involves the *scientific method', not mumbo-jumbo.

"...Mr Lawrence would suffer muscular spasms that were most debilitating and energy sapping, thus reinforcing the mystique about his work to any onlookers, which re-emphasised the Magickal aspect of dowsing."

I *hate* the word 'Magick'. It's being used as a shibboleth here.

"The Christian Church at one time generated a lot of superstitious nonsense with their witching laws because they believed that dowsing was a form of witchcraft, thankfully that is now not the case, there have been many studies of dowsing made and now we have a bank of information today that gives us the information that we knew all the time - Dowsing Works!"

I think that to call Christianity's attitude to withcraft 'superstitious nonsense' while making claims for efficacy of spellcasting is hypocritical. Also, there is that study I referred to which shows that dowsing *doesn't* work. And don't bring up the fallacious argument that the act of observation somehow disturbs the dowswer's 'energies'. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, proof that would withstand any observational conditions. I'm sure that if such proof existed, it would have made the front pages of the broadsheets in living memory.

I don't want to piss on Romani's bonfire. She can write nicely but I think that the claims made in this article, and its uncritical tone, do *not* make it suitable for the Edited Guide in its present form. A more dispassionate treatment would be better. And I practise what I preach, read A1045883 to see what I mean.

Merry Xmas to all

FM





A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 49

Zarquon's Singing Fish!

I think it's reasonably well proven that experiments are affected by the experimenters - the presence of an observer changes what is observed. As dowsing works with subtle energies, as is stated in the entry, then the presence of strongly critical onlookers will change the energies being observed. These people are *not* dispassionate as far as I can see.

Well, Romani, over to you. What do you want to do with this entry? Are there changes you wish to make?

smiley - fishsmiley - musicalnote


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 50

Felonious Monk - h2g2s very own Bogeyman

So they design experiments to *not* take into account the effects of the observers: the 'double-blind' methodology is well kown and has been used here. With very inconclusive results.


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 51

Zarquon's Singing Fish!

Yet it appears to work in the field. However, this isn't making the baby a new bonnet, so I suggest we wait to hear from romi.

smiley - fishsmiley - musicalnote


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 52

Zarquon's Singing Fish!

smiley - whistle

smiley - fishsmiley - musicalnote


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 53

FordsTowel

Coffee AND Hard Work?! A dangerous combination!

Just one thing from me. Your biblical quote was entirely off topic. The smiting of the rock had absolutely nothing to do with dowsing or finding water, it was a promise that they could turn any rock into a tap just by smacking it.

It's the difference between my saying "guess which pocket I keep my coins in and you can have them", and "put your hand in any of my coin-filled pockets and take whatever number of coins you want".

smiley - towel


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 54

Watermusic

I think the ability to dowse is a bit like any other sense to a degree - Most people can see, some people need glasses and others are blind.
One of my brothers can dowse, I can get a small reaction(need glasses) and the rest of the immediate family is 'blind'.
Dowsers are used by the water bore-hole drilling companies locally, especially when the geologists have turned out to be wrong!
Watermusic


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 55

Zarquon's Singing Fish!

Romi,

I really like this entry, however at present, as much as I would like to recommend it (and I have picks at present), I think it would benefit by having a few relevant headers, eg 'History', 'Dowsing in Today's World', 'The Sceptics' View', 'Conclusion', etc.

That should get over the critical points others have made and it would make reading the entry easier too.

Don't give up on it.smiley - smiley Let us know when you've made amendments.

smiley - fishsmiley - musicalnote


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 56

Cyzaki

Are you still working on this?

smiley - panda


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 57

Zarquon's Singing Fish!

I do hope so! smiley - smiley

smiley - fishsmiley - musicalnote


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 58

Felonious Monk - h2g2s very own Bogeyman

It'll need a lot more work. In its current form, it's unbalanced and overly credulous. Now, it's up to Roimi whether she (a) wants to write a dispassionate article on dowsing or (b) wants to act as an apologist for New Age crap. The first option leads to a good EG article. The second means it stays out of the EG.


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 59

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

What he said.

Hello, you there, Romi? I know you're still subscribed to this thread....

smiley - mouse


A881345 - THE HISTORY OF DOWSING

Post 60

St Romani Angel Guardian of Crystals. Minister of Coffee now on the decaff!!

hi every one
sorry for not being around much not got in h2 much lately but yes im still working on this and have taken into account every ones comments and views and will do my best to take all that into account
btw this is the first time ive seen this thread since before xmas but once again sorry for my absence
romi


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