A Conversation for The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Peer Review: A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 1

Bluebottle

Entry: The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992 - A87929310
Author: Bluebottle - U43530

The end of the story smiley - puff

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A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 2

SashaQ - happysad

I have just encountered Anna Vooshka in the book I'm reviewing at the moment, so I found this Entry smiley - ok

I've seen a bit of That's Carry On quite recently - it was cleverly done, and I did notice that the clips chosen passed the Bechdel Test smiley - ok

Superb concluding paragraph smiley - applausesmiley - biggrin


A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 3

Bluebottle

Ooh, what book is it and what does it say about her?

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A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 4

SashaQ - happysad

As you saw smiley - winkeye it is this book A87930165

I'll check the book later and let you know exactly what was said, as the author found her a particularly notable character!


A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 5

SashaQ - happysad

Here is the paragraph!

"It is in the 1970s film Carry On Behind that the female Celluloid Archaeologist made the deepest impression. Her aggressively sexual pursuit of Kenneth Williams' male archaeologist character shows that she did not take the apparent male domination of the profession lying down. The character of Professor Anna Vooshka can be described as the most pronounced concept of the female Celluloid Archaeologist. It is probably the highlight of her [the female Celluloid Archaeologist's] career, especially as she flirts her way through the film, oblivious to her colleague's obvious discomfort."

Page 15 in 'Digging Holes in Popular Culture', Edited by Miles Russell, Oxbow Books 2002.


A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 6

Bluebottle

Thanks for that, it's very interesting - though I think I would say 'playful and determined', 'aggressive' seems a little harsh. She's definitely a fun character who is enjoying herself, and unusually a unique one too (most other 'Carry On' characters are essentially the same role over and over again).

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A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 7

SashaQ - happysad

Yes I agree 'playful and determined' is a better way of putting it - 'aggressive' potentially holds her up to a higher standard of behaviour than that of a similar man...

Just reading this I spotted a few things:

"Dick Turpin aka Revered" - Reverend
"Lady Daly " - Daley?
"Professor Anna Vooshka, Russian Roman expert (Eleke Sommer)" - Elke

The paragraph about the film of lasts would fit nicely just before the paragraph about it being Talbot Rothwell's last film too.

I'm not sure I understand the paragraph about Talbot Rothwell - it seems to suggest he was unable to work because of having been a prisoner of war but he did work for over a decade... Could maybe be rephrased more positively, somehow, to say that he worked prodigiously while managing poor health until the episode that left him unable to write...?

"International film star Elke Sommer was paid £30,000 to appear in this film, more than the total paid to Barbara Windsor2 for all her 10 Carry On appearances" - wow, that is a statistic exemplifying Peter Rogers' paltry pay policy indeed... Do you know how much Barbara Windsor was paid for That's Carry On ?

"Can they survive a deadly attack of stock footage nicked from 1969 film Battle of Britain?" - smiley - laughsmiley - ok

" a parody of Emmanuelle (1974)" - can you say something about Emmanuelle (1974) in a nutshell there? A soft porn film?

The paragraph "Following the huge television reception to That's Carry On! in 1981" about the complications is complicated - is it saying that the rights to the Carry On films were split between the ITV and the BBC so they each produced compilation shows?

smiley - ok


A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 8

Bluebottle

Thanks for your comments there, I've tweaked the entry accordingly, moving paragraphs here, rewording sentences there – you know the drill.

Sadly I've not been able to find out how much Barbara Windsor was paid for 'That's Carry On!' – I'd love to know if it was the same as Kenneth Williams, though I suspect it was roughly just over half as Barbara Windsor's highest 'Carry On' pay was £3,000 when Kenneth Williams was normally earning £5,000. Rogers would have paid her as little as he could get away with.

Can I confess I don't quite understand your comment ''aggressive' potentially holds her up to a higher standard of behaviour than that of a similar man'. I'm not sure being aggressive is a higher standard of behaviour…?smiley - huh You can be wilful and forceful even and still be a positive role model, but aggression crosses a line.

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A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 9

SashaQ - happysad

smiley - ok

Thanks for trying to find the information about the payments. I can imagine Barbara Windsor was paid considerably less than Kenneth Williams, going by other payments that were made...

Sorry my thoughts about 'aggressive' are somewhat vague and I didn't describe them well, either...

I was thinking something along the lines of comparing her behaviour with that of a man doing similar things - would the author of the article describe such a man as 'aggressive', or would the man's behaviour need to be more extreme in order to be described as such? So Anna Vooshka was potentially being held to a higher standard by the author, that her behaviour was considered to cross the line into 'aggressive' rather than 'determined'...


A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 10

Bluebottle

Funnily enough I would have thought the opposite - that would be less likely for a woman to be seen as being aggressive, as I consider aggression to be determination plus a degree of threat and/or intimidation.

I know what you are thinking, 'what does your Oxford Saver Dictionary say about "Aggression". I'm afraid it is at home but I do have my Chambers here, though, and it defines 'Aggression' as:
"a first act of hostility or injury; the use of armed force by a state against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another state; self-assertiveness, either as a good characteristic or more often as a sign of emotional instability."

I'm not sure that actually helped, y'know.

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A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 11

SashaQ - happysad

smiley - ok In lieu of the Oxford Saver Dictionary definition, the Chambers definition is interesting... May or may not help indeed...

I think we are in agreement - women are less likely to be seen as aggressive, so by describing her as 'aggressive' rather than as 'determined' the author was saying she crossed a line so her behaviour was extreme.

My pondering was about whether the author would call a man who behaved as she did 'aggressive' - if the man didn't qualify as 'aggressive', given the higher likelihood of him being seen as exhibiting aggressive behaviour, then that would be holding Anna Vooshka up to a higher standard.

My impression is that such behaviour in films etc has often been laughed off as 'boys will be boys' or suchlike, rather than being called 'aggressive' - do you have a view about that from your experience of these films?


A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 12

Bluebottle

Ah!smiley - eureka I get what you mean now.

The 'Carry On' films can be considered to be about the battles of the sexes. In the 'Carry On' context, her character's behaviour isn't unusual inasmuch as what she does isn't unusual, but the way she goes about it is. It is very common for female characters in 'Carry On's to pursue Kenneth Williams' characters, particularly Matron played by Hattie Jacques but Patsy Rowlands does so too. After all, no-one else could act as uncomfortable around women the way Kenneth Williams could. Yet though her character is forthright and flirty, she is playful with it. The only female character whose pursuit of Kenneth Williams' characters I'd say could legitimately be considered 'aggressive' would be Emmannuelle in 'Carry On Emmannuelle', but even so she is flirty.

Most of the time, women in 'Carry On' films either welcome male attention, either in order to manipulate the man for their own ends and leaving the male characters looking foolish, or because they want it, often having become jealous when their partner starts flirting with other women who are leading them on. Sid James' flirtatious behaviour is definitely classed as 'boys will be boys'. Sadly the worst case of male aggressive behaviour towards women is in 'Carry On Follow That Camel' where the lead female character is assaulted by every man she encounters, which is presented as being only natural.

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A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

Post 13

SashaQ - happysad

smiley - ok

Yes, there is no excuse for glorifying assault... That is much better when the female characters have agency and can be seen to make choices (although the choices are dictated by the script).


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Post 14

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Post 15

SashaQ - happysad

Congratulations! smiley - bubblysmiley - biggrin


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Peer Review: A87929310 - The Ultimate Carry On Film Guide: 1974 - 1992

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