A Conversation for What Cotton Had to Do with It
Peer Review: A87785031 - What Cotton Had to Do with It
Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Started conversation Feb 7, 2013
Entry: What Cotton Had to Do with It - A87785031
Author: Dmitri Gheorgheni - U1590784
This entry attempts to explain to non-US history students, briefly, the importance of cotton to events in the 19th Century.
Of course, the US students could use it for review.
I hope it's not too dry. And yeah, you can change the title. This one's just a teaser.
A87785031 - What Cotton Had to Do with It
minorvogonpoet Posted Feb 7, 2013
This is a good article and I wouldn't call it dry, although it may be very serious. And it makes a contribution to understanding by telling everybody of the history of cotton and slavery - because both Americans and Brits were involved in the slave trade.
I have a few queries:
You describe cotton as 'eco-friendly'. I'm not sure this is true. I'd heard that cotton needs a lot of water and puts excessive demands on places which are naturally arid.
Is it true that Virginia invented 'chattel slavery'? Surely slavery is as old as civilisation?
I puzzled a bit about the sentence beginning "Eventually northern US manufacturers'. Presumably you mean the southern slave-owning states could undercut the north, because they exported their cotton to Britain for manufacture.
As for the title, does it need to be changed? I suppose if you changed it to 'Cotton, Slavery and Civil War' it would come up in more searches.
A87785031 - What Cotton Had to Do with It
Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Feb 7, 2013
That's a good point about eco-friendly. I was thinking about in comparison to all those fossil-fueled-based fabrics. Good catch, I'll reword.
Chattel slavery's not the same thing as slavery in ancient cultures.
Here's a timeline that might put it into perspective a bit:
http://www.brycchancarey.com/slavery/chrono2.htm
I'll take a look at that sentence, thanks!
A87785031 - What Cotton Had to Do with It
Florida Sailor All is well with the world Posted Feb 8, 2013
Excellent Entry Dmitri;
I have a comment or two, I'm sure you thought I would
One fun story first
On my first visit to Charleston, SC my wife and I were driving to a re-enactment in Plymouth, NC. I decided to spend the first night in a motel just south of Charleston, it was about halfway way and I had always wanted to visit the city. We hired a cab to go into the city as I did not want to drive after imbibing. I remember the cab driver was a talkative sort, when he learned that this was our first visit he said;
'The People of Charleston are a lot like the Chinese - We all love rice and worship our ancestors!'
In you opening list No3 on natural fibres should mention silk, I know you are not trying to include everything but silk also made some serious changes in western life - you need not name them.
In the period before the Cotton Gin linen, made from flax, was the most common cloth used for clothing. It was cheaper, but uncomfortable and wore-out sooner than cotton. Believe me I know
One direct suggestion;
>Virginia had invented chattel slavery.
might be better as
Virginia had invented is own style of chattel slavery.
As another post point out it was not a new idea, as we find it in the Old Testament.
You might want a footnote saying that the 'gin' in Cotton Gin was an abbreviation for 'engine', I find a lot of people don't know that
As your primary subject is cotton, a mention of short and long staple cotton would not be amiss, before the gin most of the cotton was short staple as it was easier to card by hand, the gin made long staple cotton practical and it produced much stronger thread.
Another point (I may be jumping about a bit as I am only thinking about a few points rather than going line by line. I'm sure if you want to include any of my thoughts you will know better than I were to put them.) is that farmers in the 19th century had no knowledge of crop rotation, or even the benefit of leaving a field lay fallow for a year or two. as the soil wore out they wanted to move west to new land, with their slaves. This is what created the the debates over new Slave or Free States.
You mention the US and Britain both outlawed the slave trade in the early 19th century, the primary difference was Britain soon also abolished slavery itself. Here in the US the planters viewed it as eliminating competition in their secondary crop - the slaves themselves.
I had a book written by a Caribbean leader (I think he had been the President of Trinidad - Tobago) who wrote about slavery in the Islands. He said they only expected a slave to live for about ten years, and were not interest in letting them reproduce as a ready supply was available from Africa.
This is not to say that American slavery was good in any way, only that I was shocked by his comments. Unfortunately that book disintegrated from reading, it was a large paper back. I do not recall the title
This has nothing to do with your Entry, I only thought you might find of interest, if you were not already aware if it.
If you find any of this of use you are welcome to it, otherwise good job!
FS
A87785031 - What Cotton Had to Do with It
Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Feb 8, 2013
Hi, thanks. You've obviously given the matter some thought here.
I don't mind mentioning silk. I was thinking of plant fibres there. I know what you mean about linen - it's way wrinkly, too.
The slavery in the Old Testament is not chattel slavery. Slavery's old. That kind of slavery isn't as old. It's not the same as debt peonage, or what's described in the Mosaic law, or what the Romans practised. It's not serfdom. It means considering another person to be personal property and not a human being. I'll reword this, because I don't want to get into a whole history lesson on it.
Cotton gin - engine. Good point for a footnote.
And no, I wrote this the way I did because I have no intention of getting into crop rotation, the intricacies of cotton varieties, etc. That would make a great Guide Entry. I'm not writing that one. Be my guest. I'll try to sneak in, though, about the way the long staple cotton made it more profitable.
What's interesting is that I started to write about sharecropping - you'll see why in a couple of weeks when you see a Post picture I found. But then I realised few people outside US history courses knew about Virginia tobacco, or the role of cotton in prolonging the horror of it all. I may get back to that one of these days.
That book sounds interesting. Did you read the one by Olaudah Equiano? I think it's probably available online. That's a good point about the difference between indentured servitude and chattel slavery - a lot of indentured servants didn't survive 7 years in the early days, because people were not motivated to care for them. This was true in the Caribbean and in Virginia/South Carolina.
Okay, reworded, fussed with and added to. Let me know if you notice anything else.
A87785031 - What Cotton Had to Do with It
Nosebagbadger {Ace} Posted Feb 8, 2013
Method 2 sounds odd to me - they're all made out of chemicals, and however you're going about it your're taking chemicals from one thing (natural or not) and making clothes with them
Do you mean synthetic chemicals? Or the fact that you have to apply chemical processes to them to turn them into clothes, as opposed to 1 and 3 which can, at least roughly, be done via physical processes?
Sorry, just slightly confused by the differences/phrasing
A87785031 - What Cotton Had to Do with It
Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Feb 8, 2013
Hm. Would you be satsified with 'mixing chemicals'?
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Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Feb 22, 2013
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bobstafford Posted Feb 22, 2013
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Florida Sailor All is well with the world Posted Feb 23, 2013
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Peer Review: A87785031 - What Cotton Had to Do with It
- 1: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Feb 7, 2013)
- 2: minorvogonpoet (Feb 7, 2013)
- 3: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Feb 7, 2013)
- 4: Florida Sailor All is well with the world (Feb 8, 2013)
- 5: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Feb 8, 2013)
- 6: Nosebagbadger {Ace} (Feb 8, 2013)
- 7: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Feb 8, 2013)
- 8: minorvogonpoet (Feb 8, 2013)
- 9: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Feb 8, 2013)
- 10: 8584330 (Feb 9, 2013)
- 11: h2g2 auto-messages (Feb 22, 2013)
- 12: Nosebagbadger {Ace} (Feb 22, 2013)
- 13: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Feb 22, 2013)
- 14: bobstafford (Feb 22, 2013)
- 15: Florida Sailor All is well with the world (Feb 23, 2013)
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