A Conversation for Causes of the Second World War

Peer Review: A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 1

spook

Entry: Causes of the Second World War - A703568
Author: Spook - U183955

This is an essay I wrote for History and have transferred to make an entry, changing a few words to make it like: It is this essay's opinion..." to "It is this entries opinion..." etc. Tell me if anything needs improving, changing, or adding. I don't think I have missed much though, since I got an A* for this essay.

spooksmiley - aliensmile


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 2

Giford

Hiya Spook,

This is a good essay, and I can see why you got the top grade for it. Every time I began to think 'I wish you would explain the Dawes Plan', up comes the heading 'Dawes Plan'! It's full of info about its subject, and I'm surprised no-one has replied before now.

I have just 2 negative comments; firstly, the style needed for an essay and the style needed for a reference work like H2G2 are different - and it's more than just replacing 'I' with 'this Researcher'. Your essay is clearly arguing a case, that WWI caused WWII. The guide is supposed to have balanced entries. (You argue well, but I would disagree in part. I think that a lot of the problems go back much further than WWI, and that both WWs were caused by the same underlying tensions.)

Secondly, there are a couple of generalisations too, like 'the Japanese invaded Manchuria to solve unemployment' - Japanese claims there went back to the 19th Century, about the time the Russians, British and Portuguese were also grabbing chunks of China.

Oh, and thirdly, you haven't mentioned the single final trigger of the war, the mutual defence treaty between UK, France and Poland (which I believe was seperate from the LoN) at all! (I got scolded by a Pole once for not knowing all the details.)

I think this needs quite a bit of rewriting in terms of style to meet the guide guidelines, but there's a lot of info in there and it should be worth the effort. In terms of content, this is a really good article.

Gif smiley - geek


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 3

spook

Thanks for the comments. I'l probably update it in a day or two. I don't thinks most things need rewording, just taking out the arguing sections and adding a couple of bits in is all I think. i may add a couple more sections on certain things like the Japanese invasion of Manchuria and things.

smiley - smiley

spooksmiley - aliensmile


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 4

xyroth

I think that the point about world war 1 being the cause of world war 2 is highly relevant.

germany surrendered to the americans, on the understanding that they would get fair treatment under america's league of nations and ?? point plan.

america then thew germany to the dogs (especially, but not exclusively france).

by completely failing to do anything to resolve the issues that caused ww1, in contravention to what germany was lead to expect by america, they thereby laid the seeds and the requirement for ww2.

I don't think he was trying to say that only the bad end to ww1 caused ww2.


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 5

spook

I've been looking at how to improve this entry and I can already see that there are a lot of things that I can add to make the entry better, so it probably won't be ready for the edited guide for a while. Time constraints can be very annoying. Once I've added everything I want to add, I'll post another message in this thread.

spooksmiley - aliensmile


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 6

Monsignore Pizzafunghi Bosselese

I'll quote Wonko from here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/F80084?thread=158428#p1601390 "First of all, let's discuss a common misperception of WW II: Hitler is the only one to blame. No, it is the German people to blame. After WW I they didn't learn anything. They didn't learn that wars are bad. They didn't lean that the lesson Bismarck thaught them was wrong (to divide Europe in friends and enemies). It was necessary to teach it the hard way to them: to essentially destroy Germany and to question each German about his nazi activities."


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 7

Tonsil Revenge (PG)

There were many countries that didn't learn anything from the "Great War", the US among them.
I think the thesis of any discussion of the "between the wars" years should be "there is no free lunch".

Unless I wasn't paying attention...this is possible...I don't remember a mention of the Spanish Civil War...

which, if I remember my reading, was kind of a dress rehearsal for the main show...


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 8

FABT - new venture A815654 Angel spoiler page

i can see you got a good mark for your essay spook, good work,

sadly researchers are more persnickty than your teachers marking guide lines. probably because you are only taught with certain boundaries due to the time contraints.

one thing in particular i would add when you are rejuggling is a section of what caused ww1. for example, there seems to be no mentions here (shoot me if i'm wrong, i have only had chance to skim read) that germany (for example) had not even been a unified country for long before ww1.

also it might be worth while to consider that most of the countires involved collapsed internally in either ww1 or ww2 or both.

it is a good entry, dont get me wrong, but must by necessity miss lots out. maybe you could get round this by changing the title a bit


also, i'd avoid generalisations if you can like; the german people hated.....

did you mention propagander at all?

seem to remember it playing a massive role in the communist control of russia and the nazi control of germany.


FABT


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 9

FABT - new venture A815654 Angel spoiler page

and spook........what would happen if you show this to your teacher once its finished?!?!?!?!?

FABT


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 10

spook

I can see that everybody is bringing up a lot of points and things that could be added. I'm don't mind adding these bits over the next few weeks (RL problems are stopping me from doing things quickly) although I'm starting to think this entry is gonna be way way too long. I'm thinking that maybe this should be turned into a university project on World War 1 and World War 2, but I'm not so sure. What does everybody else think?

spooksmiley - aliensmile


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 11

FABT - new venture A815654 Angel spoiler page

for the sake of completness it might be the way to go........and you would have no trouble revising for your exam if you had written the bulkmof a uni project on it......


but on the other hand it is somethign younhave clearly worked v. hard on....would you be willing to do that?

FABT


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 12

spook

I would be quite happy to turn this into a uni project, but the date of completion would probably be the summer due to my personal time. If you'd like to brainstorm different entries that would have to be included then I could start to prepare for doing it. Unfortunately I would have to break up this entry, and have it as a pretty short entry linking to an entry on each cause, with the causes explained in even more detail, but I'm happy to make that great sacrifice.

spooksmiley - aliensmile


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 13

Tonsil Revenge (PG)

Do what you wish.
Just a thought, though.
But if you want to go back far enough, you end up with the Lost Legion in the Black Forest....

I would pick a year, a month, maybe and beat the crap out of that month. Like sometime in 1936... A microcosm of the the whole ball of wax... A day, even. Because a specific point in time can be more illuminating than a blanket statement on a whole era or philosophy...

Just a thought.


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 14

Dr Hell

OK many thoughts have already been gathered in this discussion, and there seems to be a suggestion to move it to the uni. That would be good.

It is a big entry on a complicated topic. Let me point out a few things that came to my mind while reading the first part.

First Germany was not forced to surrender in WW-I. There was a revolution in Germany, and those who took over ended the war. (WW-1 would not have gone on much longer by the way) In general German people LIKED it, that the war was over. What they didn't like was what came afterwards.

Hitler did not HATE other countries. Many other countries did not HATE Hitler (there were many French people who actually liked Hitler) Hitler hated the government of other countries along with democratic parties. (Remark: Anti-semitism is another topic altogether)

"he also wanted power in Germany ... so that he could have full control of Europe." These are two different things altogether. 'Hitler' also happened in many other countries (Franco and Mussolini). By the end of the 30s fascism was seen as a serious functioning alternative to democracy. It worked in Italy and in Spain. Nazi-Parties were strong in many other countries. Nazism was OK even in America.

The text goes on stating an opinion: "In my opinion, the First World War was the main cause of the Second World War because it was the first event in the chain that led to a Second World War."

One could argue about that: The first chain of events was Napoleon and the French revolution, if you like. Blaming WW-2 on WW-1 is a common misconception. These two wars are of course tightly linked, especially because they happened so close to eachother. Some people even consider WW-1 and WW-2 the same conflict, that resulted from the German-French war in 1870/71.

I will not go on here, as it is unpolite, but this entry needs a lot of grinding before it can enter the edited part of the guide.

IOt is an ambitious project and I admire the courage to start writing about it. But it's certainly not finished yet.

Maybe WW-2 is too complicated to explain in one entry.

Think about the university project. I'll be glad to join/help

HELL


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 15

Tonsil Revenge (PG)

You're so polite.
French revolution?
And you thought I was joking when I mentioned the Lost Legion...

According to Sir Winston's account of the war, the reason it occurred is because no one would listen to him...


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 16

Dr Hell

smiley - winkeye

Or because no-one indeed read of the most un-read 'best-seller' of all times: Hitler's 'Mein Kampf'. (And even if they did read it, it would have been difficult to think that the guy was being serious)

H


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 17

Orcus

There is also the issue of the Pacific War which is not even mentioned except with Japanese invasion of Manchuria.
In the end Pearl Harbour and the ensuing war between Japan and the USA are what turned it into a truly global conflict - prior to that it was mostly a european war.
...and that was most simplistic.

I find it hard to imagine that this article (and it *is* good, I can see why you got a top notch grade for it) will ever satisfy everybody as to the true causes of World War II.

Anyone mentioned France and UK's colonial activities yet? smiley - winkeye

Now as to the causes of the French revolution... smiley - winkeye


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 18

FABT - new venture A815654 Angel spoiler page

ok, a uni project called 'collected essays on some of the causes of the second world war"? how far are we going to have to go here. not going to be easy but it is a project worth pursuing.



not strictly re;evant but i'll make the point anyway.....regarding politacal parties of the 30's. I spend most of my time in various librarys, at the moment Law. Thre are loads of books dating for the 30's which go on and on about how great communism is and have massive case studies about the merits of various systems, like having creches at companioes so mothers can work etc. some things seem mad now, but then they always do in hindsite. but my point is, after the first WW
politics were very very different than today. basically there were no 'middle of the road parties'. You basically had, royalists, old school politicians, fascists, communists, and various other extremists in most countries. a lot of countires were not democracies or had not been for very long. politics was very reactionary. it meant that people percieved things in a very different way. it is said that hitler was the fiorst to effectively use propagander. true or not, you have to consider the mindset of countries and countries full of people still getting used to mass media. Radio was still pretty new as a commonly available luxury. people thought differently. at the end of 1900 a lot of people poebably hadnt much clue what was happening regarding world affairs, simply due to the way the world worked. in 1939 things were very very different. there had been a vast number of social changes as well as political ones and tehse must be taken into consideration when discussing how things were achieved and how the population was controlled/pursuaded/executed.........



end of gross generalisation. ignore all that if it made no sense

FABT


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 19

IMSoP - Safely transferred to the 5th (or 6th?) h2g2 login system

[a brief germ of an idea, on my way to bed smiley - sleepy]:
Much has been posted here on the fact that chains of causes are long, and it is hard to know where to stop.
It occurs to me that on a site such as this, you needn't ever stop, since someone else can continue where you left off. In other words, perhaps a project could be started by looking at the *immediate* causes of, say, WW2, with requests to other uses to look at the immediate causes of *those*, and so on. Thus a kind of linked list of history articles could gradually be built, piece by piece.
I've no idea if I've described what's in my head properly, or even if it makes sense anyway, but there you go...

IMSoPsmiley - yawn


A703568 - Causes of the Second World War

Post 20

Tonsil Revenge (PG)

Well....let me engage in a bit of reductio ad absurdem....

How about a simple list of possible causes?

A numbered list.

You could, or we could, start with the 1848 mess in Germany...
And along the way throw in the U.S Civil War and the British Boer War, which truly introduced propaganda and concentration camps and...
and...
Plevna could find a place, too.

Just as study of the Bible or the Koran or the Sutras can be crippled by the rather late introduction of chapters and verse divisions...
Modrin students are crippled by the idea that centuries and events are self-contained...

Not to say that the Archduke and his Wife had it coming...but if you pile up enough manure long enough, it will combust....
And remember, McKinley and other leaders were assassinated during that period, too.

Which reminds me: a belated thanks to Sir Hiram Maxim...


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