A Conversation for Norfolk - the bootiful East

Peer Review: A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 1

AgProv2

Entry: Norfolk - the bootiful East - A6108473
Author: AgProv - U538194

As requested on the Front Page, an entry on a great British county.

The job came to me by default, has in an earlier stage been well reviewed by Paully, and I think may now be fit for release as an Edited Entry.

See what you think.


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 2

Mu Beta

Wow. Very comprehensive, and an excellent read.

I've only skimmed it thus far, but it looks fantastic and we can only hope that all the counties have an equally good job done on them.

I'm guessing you're a bit of a beginner as far as GuideML goes: no worries, we can help you patch that up, either here or in the Subbing stage, if you don't want to do it yourself. smiley - ok

B


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 3

Skankyrich [?]

Yes, a very good entry indeed smiley - ok

My only beef really would be the large discussion of East Anglia at the beginning, which could almost be the basis of a seperate entry. I think if you cut down this section (the entry is after all about one county in the area) it would be a far easier read. Similarly the 'two Englands' part that ends that section doesn't really wash. You could arbitrarily seperate England into many parts; the West Country, Cumbria, rural Yorkshire, parts of the Welsh borders, each of which can feel like a separate country. The 'two Englands' are pretty much rural England and urban England smiley - smiley Exeter is just as unrushed and laid-back as Norwich, you know!

Finally, your footnotes are rather long too - is there any way of you working them into the text?

Other than this, nice work!

smiley - cider


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 4

AgProv2

Ah, I put them as footnotes precisely because they were interesting anecdotes or sideways discursions that I didn't want to include in the main body, as they'd have interrupted the flow a bit.

All a matter of taste, I suppose?

And yes, GuideML is fairly new to me: I've done the best I can, including breaking the block text up into shorter paragraphs, but any further assistance with subbing would be welcomed!

The East Anglain proplogue: I'll go with a majority opinion on that one. But maybe the same sensation of "timeslip" into an earlier England occurs on any of the fringes? Having never visited the West Country or Devon/Cornwall, I'm in no position to judge.

There IS, though, a very definite "twilight zone" that I feel happening to me somewhere in betwen Peterborough and Ely, or between Chelmsford and Colchester (I've approached East Anglia from both directions). The "two Englands" bit is my attempt to rationalise it and make sense of it.

Thank you for friendly and positive reviewing!

AP


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 5

Mu Beta

I would agree that the footnotes are a matter of taste, although I noted a couple of first-person references which will need to be removed.

GuideML lesson number one: remove the Subheader at the beginning (The Powers That Be don't like entries that begin with headers), and change the other Subheader tags to Header tags. Then, instead of following every paragraph with a tag, enclose them all in sets of and tags. This will smarten up the presentation no end for staters. smiley - ok

B


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 6

AgProv2

Hopefully all direct first person references (use of "I", "us",) have been spotted and excised.

Are passive first person references permissible, in the form of "this Author can relate" or "The author of this piece can testify"?

If not, I'll have to go back and re-write!


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 7

Mu Beta

Usually, yes. We tend to use 'this Researcher', rather than 'this author'.

My own personal preference is for 'popular opinion states', or 'such-and-such is commonly said', which doesn't cloy as much, but leaves the reader in no doubt as to whose opinion it is. smiley - biggrin

B


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 8

echomikeromeo

Is there any chance you could include a few more subheaders in order to break up the very long sections a bit?

Another celebrity sort of person from Norfolk is Stephen Fry. I was looking for an Edited Entry on him for you to link to, but it appears one doesn't exist.


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 9

Mina

"Until recent times, Essex was unquestionably a part of East Anglia too; but most of this county has been swallowed up in the massive expansion of Greater London,"

This is not correct - Essex is not part of Greater London, and although yes, many of the towns to the west of the county do have a lot of London commuters living in them it's absolutely not anything to do with London. Can you correct this please? It's absolutely not an overspill estate! Unless, of course, you are talking about the county boundaries changing? Many towns still have Essex as a postal address, while now being part of one of the London boroughs and not part of Essex at all, but if that's what you mean, then it would be better to explain that.

Although I think someone did mention that if this entry is about Norfolk, then why the in depth discussion of East Anglia and what makes up its counties? I think that this section, especially as it then talks about Greenwich, is just confusing. Perhaps it could be a sperate entry about what makes up East Anglia? I had a very similar discussion in my entry about Matthew Hopkins' PR thread, so it could be good to have a well written and researched entry on the subject!

Much as I hate to say this, even if you take out that entire section, I think this entry is very long and would do well to be split into two entries. Sorry, I hate sounding like I think people are too dim to read something long, but it is true that it's more difficult to read lots of on a computer screen that it is to sit with a book, or even a print out.

Because this entry does sort of meander between history and geography, I think that would make a good split. One entry about each - they can be linked together as they both get to the Front Page, and I think you might find that you gain, and keep, more readers than having one long entry. If you use the first section about East Anglia as an entry of its own too, then hey presto! You've got three of the price of one.

Anyone else think the same?


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 10

Mina

I forgot to say that otherwise this is a good entry! I don't want to start really commenting on it just yet, in case you do decide to split it up.


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 11

Skankyrich [?]

Yes, pretty much (part of) the point I was trying to make, Mina smiley - ok


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 12

AgProv2

Good evening all

I've taken Mina's comments on board and allowed for them by splitting off and re-wording the "prologue" piece on East Anglia which now exists as a seperate Guide entry: A6169233. (I have referenced it back to the Norfolk piece, though, and will look for further East Anglian links to work into this!)

Currently considering curbing the impossible length by at least taking out the University if East Anglia, Norwich, pice and making this a seperate entity, although thoroughly linked to Guide entries on Norwich, Norfolk and East Anglia.

Perhaps then splitting the residue into (i) the requested piece on Norfolk and (2) making Norwich itself a seperate entry, then cross-referencing them all as a related set.

What do you all think?




A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 13

AgProv2

Whoops: "East Anglia - A State of Mind" is actually A6169223.

Amazing the difference being one digit out can make...


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 14

AgProv2

And one of my old alma maters, the University of East Anglia, Norwich, now has its own seperate Guide entry: A6169403.

This has been cross-referenced to the "bootiful East" and as time allows this week, I will go back and attempt to work it up a bit more, perhaps with a section on famous UEA alumni. Although I can only think of about four so far: Selina Scott (TV) Mark Seddon (Labour party political wonk and anti-Blairite dissident)Rowan Pelling (Erotic Review editress who did I think one year at UEA, I remember meeting her in the bar at Fifers' Lane)and that Iraqui woman who quietly did her post-doctoral studies in the School of Biology and who later surfaced on the Most Wanted list as one of Saddam's principal advisors on nerve gases and biological weapons...



A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 15

Skankyrich [?]

Just so you know, when this entry gets through to the Edited Guide links to non-EG entries will be removed by the subs/eds - and the A-number gets changed too. It may be easier for you to link them to each other as and when they enter the Edited Guide smiley - ok


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 16

Mina

That does look neater - although the footnotes could make up an entry in themselves! I'll try to look in again later. I'd like to perhaps help you to get some of them back into the text if I may?


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 17

AgProv2

Hi Mina

All help gratefully accepted!

AP


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 18

AgProv2

And to shed even more weight: the original mega-entry has now hived off, amoeba-like, a fourth daughter.

A6172931: "Norwich: a Foine City" is now available for inspection. Comments please....

This means the original entry is now focused solely on the County of Norfolk as per original brief, with the three interesting diversions (East Anglia, Norwich and the UEA) having been moved to constitute Guide entries all of their very own.

(It occurs to me: one more on the same theme is enough to constitute a themed Guide University seminar?)


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 19

AgProv2

Right, I think I'm about done for today... Norwich having been budded off into an entry of its own, with only a single residual paragraph left here, and a few minor corrections and additions (SOMETHNG had to be said about Sandringham and Walshingham, where Crown and Crozier meet!)

Is it still too long? I hope not!


A6108473 - Norfolk - the bootiful East

Post 20

echomikeromeo

If you have five entries on a topic they can be considered a Uni project, but then you'd have to remove them all from PR - and the Norfolk one wouldn't count since it's part of the counties project, right?

Check out <./>University-What</.> for more info.


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