A Conversation for A Guide to the German Federal States

Peer Review: A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 1

SchrEck Inc.

Entry: A Guide to the German Federal States - A5646648
Author: SchrEck Inc. - U120894

I've been working on it some time, but finally it's finished. A not so short cultural/geographical/historical overview to Germany's federal states. Please be gentle, and please point out any 'Germanisms' that still may have hidden in the text. smiley - smiley

SchrEck Inc.

PS - Just in case someone asks - no, I don't want to divide it into smaller parts (dunno where to divide). And no, I don't want to rework it into an uni project (the sections are too small to merit seperate entries, and I don't want to expand them further).

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 2

Researcher 188007

Sehr gut, mein freund smiley - ok I have these suggestions for the first section.

Para 1: widely spread > widespread. ...are often a bit > often being a bit. Last sentence - delete 'This is where'.

2: smiley - star there is often...mentioned > a gap between...is often mentioned. smiley - star the 'old' federal states - delete repeated 'the'. smiley - star the diffrerential > differences. smiley - star meaning that... [to end of para] > as the South is generally better off than the North, due to more industry, higher wages and less unemployment.

3: smiley - star there are also...until today > there are still cultural differences. smiley - star 'cold war' and 'iron curtain' should be capitalised. smiley - star centralistically-organised > centrally planned

4: smiley - star you could > you can. smiley - star translate > change. smiley - star are even offering > even offer. smiley - star take a step further > take things a step further.

smiley - cake

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 3

Researcher 188007

These are all little mistakes by the way, and the content is fine smiley - smiley


Para 1: smiley - star is located in > delete meaningless 'located' smiley - evilgrinsmiley - star because the inhabitants...thrifty > due to the inhabitants' legendary cleanliness, diligence and thrift. smiley - star in the public opinion the whole of...> the received opinion is that... smiley - star just a part of... in Bavaria > in fact only part of Swabia lies in Wurttemberg, the rest being in Bavaria.

2: smiley - star very attractive for tourists > notoriously attractive to tourists. smiley - star not only...notorious good weather > partly due to the fine climate; smiley - star It may be ...exquisite cookery > Gourmands please note smiley - star have their restaurant in > work in. smiley - star could expect > can expect. smiley - star tributed > attributed.

3: smiley - star Colon in 1st sentence > full stop. smiley - star areas belonging to the church > glebe lands. smiley - star sovereign > monarch. smiley - star which themselves were > which were themselves.


1: smiley - star with borders to > bordering on. smiley - star very powerful economics > a very powerful economy. smiley - star From times > From the time. smiley - star aversion for > aversion to. smiley - star so much that the > so much so that.

2: smiley - star the primordial > historic. [Join paras 2 and 3 together]

3: smiley - star the Alps foreland > the Alpine foothills. smiley - star relaxing at > relaxing by.

4: smiley - star back until > back to. smiley - star fifth > 5th. smiley - star first world war should be capitalised.

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 4

SchrEck Inc.

Thanks very much, I'll address your points later. smiley - ok

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 5

You can call me TC

Hi SchrEck!

It may be taken as rather condescending the way you introduce the entry: "As many hopefully will know". Without wanting to alter your style, I would make the tone of this introductory para a bit more matter-of-fact.

Leave out "As many hopefully will know" and start with the simple fact that "Germany - ... - consists of 16 federal states."

The rest of the paragraph could be something like: "While these divisions are purely political, there are many characteristics which are typical for each state."

This way you avoid implying that "You lot might know a bit about how Germany is divided up - at least I hope you do - and I'm going to tell you a bit more."

The intention of *any* entry is to provide the reader with information that he hitherto did not know about, so the sentence: "More detailed information is not so widely spread though, even just the names of all the states are often a bit of a difficulty for many Germans. This is where this article will try to fill the gaps." is somewhat superfluous.

As the rest of the entry goes on in the matter-of-fact style, delivering facts and figures in an orderly fashion, the chatty style of the opening paragraph does not fit in.

Having said that, I would be very upset to have someone say this about an entry if it was mine, so I apologise if by commenting on your style, I have offended in any way.

Other tiny weeny nitpicks are:

smiley - geek
"translate the ü umlaut to 'ue' where appropriate"
the "where appropriate" can be deleted, as you always translate Ü to UE in web addresses.

smiley - geekBADEN-WÜRTTEMBERGsmiley - geek

"the inhabitants are said to be extraordinary cleanly"
".. are said to be extraordinarily clean and houseproud"

smiley - geek
"This is often tributed to French influences"
"This is often attributed to French influences" (or "to the influence of neighbouring France")

smiley - geekBAVARIAsmiley - geek

"From times when Prussia and Bavaria were still independent kingdoms (18th century) there is also an aversion for the Prussians"
"...aversion to..."
or ".. the Bavarians harbour an aversion to the Prussians"

smiley - geekBERLINsmiley - geek

"having approximately twice as much inhabitants as Hamburg"
"having approximately twice as many inhabitants as Hamburg"

smiley - geek

"It eventually became the residency of King Frederic "
"It eventually became the residence of King Frederic "

smiley - geek

"The newer history "
"More recent history"

smiley - geek

"and it was only allowed for West Germans to cross the border "
"and West Germans were only allowed to cross the border ..."

(Foreigners were only allowed to cross at Friedrichstrasse. I still have nightmares about the day we went to East Germany and I had to go through a different channel from my husband) And of course, it was near on impossible for citizens of the East to cross from East to West.

smiley - geek

Also in the paragraph about divided Berlin, you may have to define who the Allied Powers, in charge of the Western half of Berlin, were. These days, a lot of people might not know.

smiley - geek

"a vote of parliament in 1991 it was decided for the parliament and federal government to be relocated from Bonn to Berlin."
"... it was decided to relocate the seat of government from Bonn (back?) to Berlin"

smiley - geek

I'm at work here, so I can't carry on with this for the moment.

Brilliant idea, anyway - smiley - cheers should have thought of it myself!!!!!

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 6

Researcher 188007

So now you get two versions to chose from smiley - biggrin


1: smiley - star twice as much > twice as many. smiley - star Delete 'the second largest one.'

2: smiley - star offers a lot for > has a lot to offer. smiley - star Charlottenburg palace > capitalise 'palace'. smiley - star better use > it's better to use.

3: smiley - star 'only' > remove inverted commas. smiley - star until > to.

4: smiley - star The newer history > The city's more recent history. smiley - star the partly damaged > badly damaged. smiley - star western allies - capitalise. smiley - star

5: smiley - star after > due to. smiley - star DDR - deitalicise. smiley - star massive protests of the population, > mass protests... smiley - star Delete 'in the first place'. smiley - star by a vote...Berlin > in 1991 a motion was passed to relocate the Bundestag and federal government from Bonn to Berlin.


[Join first two paragraphs]

2: the main... of Brandenburg > Brandenburg's main tourist attractions.

3: smiley - star Electorate Brandenburg - switch words. smiley - star founded not - and again. smiley - star Prussian Kingdom > Kingdom of Prussia. smiley - star Delete 'the former'. smiley - star in the German reunification > after Reunification.


1: smiley - star Weser - deitalicise. smiley - star which made > which has made. smiley - star extremely important for > extremely important to. smiley - star are coming in via > are via. smiley - star thus providing > thus provides. smiley - star

2: smiley - star Parks to relax > parks to relax in.

3: smiley - star again gaining independence > regaining the level of autonomy. smiley - star which had been lost during the Nazi reign > lost during Nazi rule.

4: smiley - star begin > beginning smiley - star Delete comma after 20th. smiley - star at this time ... emigration to America > at this time emigration to America was at its peak. End sentence. smiley - star the emigrants > Emigrants. smiley - star they were > were. smiley - star Delete 'with accommodation and food'.

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 7

AXR (empty)

I just checked BW and Berlin, but found at least one mistake.
The Wall was built at 13th of August 1961.
Maybe you should also explain DDR more directly.


A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 8

Susanne - if it ain't broke, break it!

smiley - applause Very good SchrEck! I especially liked the history parts.

I think there was a typo: "wants to go TO Sylt"

And I thought, maybe you could include Bonn to "other cities in NRW", as it was the country's capital for some time. And possibly Passau to "other cities in Bayern", there is also an edited guide entry on Passau, and the importance of the town will increase dramatically in my opinion, as I shall be moving there very soon smiley - winkeye

You mentioned in the Hamburg section something about a Hamburger being the inhabitant, not only the fast food. Sho has written an entry on that subject, I don't know if it's still in Peer review, but maybe you could put a link in a footnote, or something smiley - erm

smiley - ok

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 9

Susanne - if it ain't broke, break it!

Here's Sho's entry A9157223

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 10

aka Bel - A87832164

I've recently been told that linking to non-edited entries is a no-no. smiley - smiley

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 11


Hi, Schreck!
This entry looks really comprehensive and informative. smiley - applause

I can appreciate that you don't want to make this any longer, so I'll keep my comments to places where your English idiom may be slightly off, or perhaps a bit unclear. This post covers as far as Brandenburg--please excuse any duplication compared to other people's comments!

--I think you should write each figure for the state area as km2, not just footnote it. It would be different if you had them in a comparative table where you just labelled the columns at the top, but here the measurements are widely separated and the lack of units is distracting.

--"...just a part of Wurttemberg could be called Swabia, while a major part is actually located in Bavaria."
==>It's not clear here whether you mean a major part of Wurttemburg is in Bavaria, or a major part of Swabia is in Bavaria.

--"As Bavaria has always been a state with very powerful economics..."
==>"...with a very strong economy..."

--"...the Alps foreland,.."
==>"...the foothills of the Alps,..."

--"...the low-mountain range in the East..."
==>"...the lower mountain range in the East,..." or "...the range of hills in the East..."

--"The history of Bavaria dates back until the fifth century AD,"
==>"...dates back to the fifth century AD..."

--"...having approximately twice as much inhabitants as Hamburg,..."
==>"...twice as many..."

--"...and there have been thoughts to make one state 'Berlin-Brandenburg' of these two;"
==>"...thoughts of making..."

--"...demanding freedom of movement and travel (Reisefreiheit) in the first place."
==>"...demanding freedom of movement and travel (Reisefreiheit) as a basic right."

"...by a vote of parliament in 1991 it was decided for the parliament and federal government to be relocated from Bonn to Berlin."
==>...by a vote of parliament in 1991 it was decided to relocate the parliament and federal government from Bonn to Berlin."

--"Brandenburg became a part of Prussian Kingdom, and together with the Prussia's capital Berlin one of the major political powers in Europe."
==>"Brandenburg became part of the Kingdom of Prussia, and together with the Prussian capital Berlin, one of the major political powers in Europe."

I'll have a look at the other half tomorrow!
smiley - cheers
smiley - rose

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 12

Researcher 188007

Continuing with HH...

1: smiley - star Delete *all* the locateds by the way. No need for them.

2: smiley - star towh hall > the Town Hall. smiley - star still are > are still. smiley - star It lost > It has lost.

3: smiley - star at the Elbe river > on the River Elbe. smiley - star since... is > since... has been. smiley - star with just about 50,000 inhabitants, but grew...process > when it had around 50,000 inhabitants, after which it grew rapidly due to industrialisation. smiley - star In the newer history, > Recent events include a big fire... smiley - star the allied bombardments > the Allied bombings.


1: smiley - star and it borders > comma + bordering smiley - star With an origin in agriculture, > Once mainly agricultural, smiley - star is now focussing > now focuses smiley - star western Rhine-Main area; > End sentence smiley - star Germany's finance centre...Frankfurt > Frankfurt is Germany's financial capital and has its largest airport. smiley - star People living in Hesse > Hessians [?]

2: smiley - star Delete 'a scenery of' smiley - star Delete 'and so on'

3: smiley - star in a letter of > in a letter from smiley - star middle ages > capitalise smiley - star reign > rule smiley - star Philipp > Philip smiley - star


1: smiley - star It borders the Baltic sea, Poland.. > It is on the Baltic Sea, and borders Poland... smiley - star consists mainly of agriculture > is mainly agricultural smiley - star thanks to the beaches of the Baltic sea > thanks to the beaches on the Baltic coast smiley - star could roughly > can roughly smiley - star semicolon > colon.

2: smiley - star coast > coastal smiley - star something > anything smiley - star semicolon > full stop smiley - star Of touristic interest > Of interest to tourists smiley - star resorts on > resorts of smiley - star but also > and also

3: smiley - star Slavian > Slavic smiley - star got under > fell under smiley - star in Germany's reunification > until Germany's reunification

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 13

Researcher 188007

Und jetzt, NS...

1: smiley - star Delete 'and is' before 'still' smiley - star It borders the North Sea, > It is on the North Sea, and borders... smiley - star not to forget > also smiley - star lower German > Low German smiley - star for anyone not being born > to anyone not born
2: smiley - star low-mountain range > [uplands? hills? mountains?] smiley - star Thus it contains...mentality > Hence it is a diverse state, not just topographically but also with regard to its people and their mentality. smiley - star Delete 'of course' smiley - star coast > coastal smiley - star ...and the better economy could > ...and greater wealth can smiley - star a big circle > a broad region smiley - star that bordered > bordering smiley - star iron curtain - capitalise smiley - star the reunification > Reunification smiley - star Delete 'still'
3: smiley - star real [slang] > really smiley - star reign > rule smiley - star again speak > speak again


1: smiley - star West > west smiley - star the federal state... inhabitants > the most populous federal state smiley - star Delete 'indeed'
2: smiley - star plate > plateau [twice] smiley - star scenery > landscape smiley - star big > large smiley - star Of touristic interest are of course mainly... > The main tourist areas are...
3: smiley - star has never been > was not smiley - star East > east smiley - star was... since > was... from smiley - star Delete '(Rhine Land)' - no need for it. smiley - star Second 'Rhine Land' > Rhineland.


1: smiley - star Insert 'the' before 1st word.
2: smiley - star touristic > tourist smiley - star namely > including smiley - star Delete 'just to name a few'
3: smiley - star Insert 'the' smiley - star which > whose smiley - star Rhine land > Rhineland [twice] smiley - star Hesse > Hessian smiley - star much > many
dates back until > dates back to smiley - star where > when smiley - star they are > are


1: smiley - star known for > known for its smiley - star history with unsteady reign... France > history of changing hands between France and Germany
2: smiley - star river; it is one... woodlands > river, and is one of the most densely wooded federal states smiley - star also incurs into > is also partly in smiley - star reaching > dating smiley - star may be suited > is suitable
3: smiley - star and about > and are about smiley - star It was part > The region was part smiley - star middle ages - capitalise smiley - star it got French > it became French smiley - star semicolon after 'until 1935' > full stop smiley - star the more left... Saarland > Saarland's left-wing and liberal parties smiley - star the majority in a referendum > in a referendum the majority smiley - star voted for > voted in favour of smiley - star it was decided > its people decided smiley - star a referendum > another referendum smiley - star colon > full stop smiley - star thus it is > it is therefore

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 14

Researcher 188007

And the final part, starting with Saxony

1: smiley - star Czechia > the Czech Republic smiley - star tributed > attributed smiley - star saxonian - capitalise smiley - star best economy > strongest economy smiley - star the reunification > Reunification
2: smiley - star could > can smiley - star middle > central
3: smiley - star Delete 'King' smiley - star in the following times > later smiley - star Kingdom - decapitalise smiley - star (re)founded > refounded


1: smiley - star middle > centre smiley - star thus is > is therefore smiley - star even if > although
2: smiley - star is getting more > becomes more
3: smiley - star The area... of Germany > What is now Saxony-Anhalt was an important German cultural centre smiley - star middle ages - capitalise smiley - star semicolon > dash smiley - star are stemming from > stem from smiley - star Thirty Year's War - remove apostrophe
4: smiley - star Delete 'mainly' smiley - star semicolon > full stop [we really don't like long sentences in English!] smiley - star further on > Later on smiley - star districts, these were > districts that were smiley - star and became a unified Anhalt again... > reunifying as Anhalt smiley - star not to confuse > not to be confused


1: smiley - star Having such a long... Baltic Sea > Having two long coastlines smiley - star Sylt is > Sylt, which is smiley - star crowded by > crowded with
2: smiley - star not to forget > not forgetting smiley - star Baltic Sea coast > Baltic Coast smiley - star pictoresque > picturesque smiley - star fjords > inlets [?] smiley - star Put 'also' before 'makes'
3: smiley - star the relation > its relation smiley - star has once been a part > was once part smiley - star Duchy of Holstein - precede with 'the' smiley - star both the Denmark > both the Danish smiley - star but was in fact mostly > but has in fact been mostly smiley - star Only... Denmark lost > Only... did Denmark lose smiley - star went back to Denmark > was returned to Denmark smiley - star this has somewhat > this is somewhat


1: smiley - star the middle of Germany and borders > central Germany, borders smiley - star it's not only sausages, but also castles... > there's more than sausages: castles... smiley - star so that > and
2: smiley - star is... foothill > are... foothills smiley - star centres (obviously) mostly > mostly centres
3: smiley - star and was > and the area was smiley - star Kingdom - decapitalise smiley - star reign > rule smiley - star then was > was then smiley - star in Ihe > In the smiley - star with the exception of > except smiley - star which went to > which became part of smiley - star re-reunited > reunited once again

Hope this helps,
Jack smiley - smiley

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 15


My that's a lot of corrections - hang in there SchrEck! smiley - goodluck

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 16

Researcher 188007

smiley - yikes Most of them are suggestions, little improvements etc. Please don't take them as being hypercritical, Schreck smiley - run

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 17


Excellent entry indeed. I would definitely mention Bonn, at least in passing.

I just wondered whether you wanted to say anything about Germany's federal structure, with them having a lot of power in aspects such as environment?


A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 18

SchrEck Inc.

Thanks y'all - I've incorporated most of the suggestions. Made the entry a lot better, I think.

AXR: I've deliberately left out are some more info on the DDR - as a Wessi I'm no expert and it truly deserves a seperate, exhaustive entry on its own.

Zat's it it for now... smiley - biggrin

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 19


smiley - ok for all the changes! smiley - applause for your patience!

Two general points, on looking back over the whole thing:
--It isn't always clear which states were part of the DDR and which weren't. I found this a bit confusing reading about Thuringia, for example. It only applies to 5 or 6 states, doesn't it? I think it would be better to actually list them when you mention the DDR in the beginning, or otherwise mention it specifically in the section about each state.
--The numbers for area and inhabitants could be clearer: as I said in a previous post, it looks as if they were put this way to fit into a table, but it doesn't make much sense to do it that way where all the numbers are separated. Giving a population of, say 11,000, and then footnoting it 'in thousands' really is much less clear than just writing 11,000,000! Likewise, giving the area units only in the footnote, especially when many English speakers will be used to square miles, not square kilometres, is a bit distracting.

A few other things that struck me on a second read-through:

I think that in the Berlin section, Hitler and the Nazis deserve at least one mention, something like: "From the Reichstag fire to the death of Hitler in his bunker, Berlin reflected the rise and fall of the Nazi regime."

You say: "Geographically, Hesse is dominated by low-range mountains that are spread throughout the country, such as Rhön, Odenwald, Taunus, Spessart." I could have sworn that Spessart was in Bavaria (I worked there as a student! smiley - winkeye).

In the footnote about Hannover, you say "This dynasty still has a connection to the English Monarchy since Electoral Prince Georg Ludwig became George I King of England in 1714." I think you should change "England" to "the United Kingdom"; it would also be worth adding: "The British monarchs were also Electors of Hannover until Queen Victoria, who as a woman could not inherit the title, which went to her uncle instead." to that footnote (but of course not if you think it would make it too long!)

smiley - cheers
smiley - rose

A5646648 - A Guide to the German Federal States

Post 20

Sho - gainfully employed again

this is fantastic! smiley - applause (and not just because of the link to mine which made me smiley - boing and :D)

As I grew up there, I was a little disappointed to see no mention of the Lüneburger Heide, which is a big tourist attraction in Niedersachsen.

I didn't see that you had included a reference to the fact that Bonn was the seat of government (as opposed to capital, I think most people would agree that it was always Berlin?) after the country was divided until very recently.

(oh, and can I mention how totally brilliant I find the area of Ost-Westphalen? What a name!!)

Can't wait to see this on the front page.

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